4706 Looking Onward: Plans and Speculation geared for a Cup Run

[4thstreet]

The Pens got Gill at the deadline from the Leafs for a 2nd and 5th. The Leafs went on to finish 24th.

The Habs are in 23rd, and I would take that trade in a heartbeat. I only have one problem with Gill, and that is that he is not the complete answer. He would help a fuck load, but if we go the Gill route over Schenn/Suter, I want to grab another dman. Nothing amazing, but an upgrade over Lilja/MAB.

Boychuk @ 1.875 mil/yr or Corvo @ 2.2 mil/yr would be upgrades IMO.Both are UFA's

 

[mall3013]

I'm lookin for schenn for the flyers. Visnovsky doesn't really fit the bill, the flyers need a big body. I also don't think the flyers have the right assets for a rental. Anything they'd trade that has enough value, is too much value for a rental. Unless teams are interested in borderline NHL prospects and picks after #30

After all said and done. I think the Flyers are going to end up with a deal that brings us Schenn. We probably will lose JVR in doing so, but Schenn loves to hit and plays physical. That's what we need. If possible, bring Gill in as well. Gill and Schenn would work!

 

[awaz]

After all said and done. I think the Flyers are going to end up with a deal that brings us Schenn. We probably will lose JVR in doing so, but Schenn loves to hit and plays physical. That's what we need. If possible, bring Gill in as well. Gill and Schenn would work!

yep i agree.. if i were a betting man, my money would be on jvr leaving, and schenn coming.. i wouldn't bet on the details though

 

[dspice07]

4) Get Iginla.

lol, i would trade jvr for iginla, hell we may actually get a captain for a few years out of it, until claude is ready

 

[lasgop8]

Im in agreement with Gill and Schenn we need the tough net clearing defenseman badly

 

[jerseyjigroe]

lol, i would trade jvr for iginla, hell we may actually get a captain for a few years out of it, until claude is ready

I would NOT do that. Give up on youth for an aging forward. No thanks. His leadership would be valuable, but I would rather have some youth and some help on D.

 

[awaz]

I would NOT do that. Give up on youth for an aging forward. No thanks. His leadership would be valuable, but I would rather have some youth and some help on D.

ya i dont think i would either.. iginla's got 1 or 2 years left (if youre lucky) of being effective.. i see that as a long-term rental and i dont think jvr should be moved for any kind of rental

the team is set up best to win a year or two from now, dont mess up those chances to try to make a run this season.. tweak to improve the team this year, but also look to improve the future, if you can (ie. trade talented youth for talented youth, ie. trade jvr for schenn)

or go for a strict rental trade that doesn't include jvr, schenn, coots, or a 1st round pick.. then i dont really care who you get.. visnovsky, grossman (stars), gill.. whoever

 

[banditshcky11]

ok 4706 here's my thoughts on what we need to do to win a cup now.

1. Investigate the possibility of moving Bryz(if you can do it and get a G in return plus some picks/prospects).
2. Trade a F to LA for JJ(I'm thinking Vorachek of JJ straight up or if they move JVR then we get JJ and a 2nd).
3. Trade Carle for a F(he's more then likely gone at season's end I'd ideally try to go for Ruutu and a 2nd, would probably have to re-sign Carle first though but if he went for 10.5-12m for 3 years I think that canes would do it in a second).
4. Trade for Hal Gill(offer up a 2nd/3rd & a 4th for him that should be plenty).

That way we'd stay deep, get tougher and get some more playoff experience on the back end.



5 or 1. Waive Shelly to make some more cap room.

 

[dspice07]

ok 4706 here's my thoughts on what we need to do to win a cup now.

1. Investigate the possibility of moving Bryz(if you can do it and get a G in return plus some picks/prospects).
2. Trade a F to LA for JJ(I'm thinking Vorachek of JJ straight up or if they move JVR then we get JJ and a 2nd).
3. Trade Carle for a F(he's more then likely gone at season's end I'd ideally try to go for Ruutu and a 2nd, would probably have to re-sign Carle first though but if he went for 10.5-12m for 3 years I think that canes would do it in a second).
4. Trade for Hal Gill(offer up a 2nd/3rd & a 4th for him that should be plenty).

That way we'd stay deep, get tougher and get some more playoff experience on the back end.



5 or 1. Waive Shelly to make some more cap room.

not that im totally opposed but that is a lot of moves for a team that is playing pretty dam good

 

[banditshcky11]

not that im totally opposed but that is a lot of moves for a team that is playing pretty dam good

True it is quite a few moves for a team pushing for 1st in the conference. I was just attempting to address all of the concerns that have been pointed out about this team. Realistically I see us going after Gill, investigating the possibility of picking up a young high caliber defensemen & looking to bring in another gritty forward(I know this seems like the last thing we need, but I would disagree with that). My thought is if we can get a good young d-man then why not try to get value for Carle who will more then likely walk at season's end(plus I think the majority of us agree that his play is suspect at times).


Also even though we're playing good we are an injury depleted team who needs to fill some gaps to really push for a cup this year. The trick is not giving up a lot for rentals and any big moves we make should be for guys with contract through the next 3-5 years.

 

[dspice07]

True it is quite a few moves for a team pushing for 1st in the conference. I was just attempting to address all of the concerns that have been pointed out about this team. Realistically I see us going after Gill, investigating the possibility of picking up a young high caliber defensemen & looking to bring in another gritty forward(I know this seems like the last thing we need, but I would disagree with that). My thought is if we can get a good young d-man then why not try to get value for Carle who will more then likely walk at season's end(plus I think the majority of us agree that his play is suspect at times).


Also even though we're playing good we are an injury depleted team who needs to fill some gaps to really push for a cup this year. The trick is not giving up a lot for rentals and any big moves we make should be for guys with contract through the next 3-5 years.

its so funny, whenever you watch a game that is broadcasted nationally the media slobbers carle. we get to see him everyday and i dont think he is anything special. also it seems that lavy and holmgren go out of their way to point out how "good" carle is. i wonder if this is a strategy to try and move him, he probably could fetch a nice return, and no way do i pay that guy more than 4 mil.

 

[banditshcky11]

its so funny, whenever you watch a game that is broadcasted nationally the media slobbers carle. we get to see him everyday and i dont think he is anything special. also it seems that lavy and holmgren go out of their way to point out how "good" carle is. i wonder if this is a strategy to try and move him, he probably could fetch a nice return, and no way do i pay that guy more than 4 mil.

The thing is Carle does a lot right offensively, it's just he seems lost sometimes in his own zone and that wouldn't be that much of a problem if he wasn't a defenseman. If he's paying with a stay at home guy he's actually a pretty damn useful NHL defenseman.

 

[awaz]

ok 4706 here's my thoughts on what we need to do to win a cup now.

1. Investigate the possibility of moving Bryz(if you can do it and get a G in return plus some picks/prospects).
2. Trade a F to LA for JJ(I'm thinking Vorachek of JJ straight up or if they move JVR then we get JJ and a 2nd).
3. Trade Carle for a F(he's more then likely gone at season's end I'd ideally try to go for Ruutu and a 2nd, would probably have to re-sign Carle first though but if he went for 10.5-12m for 3 years I think that canes would do it in a second).
4. Trade for Hal Gill(offer up a 2nd/3rd & a 4th for him that should be plenty).

That way we'd stay deep, get tougher and get some more playoff experience on the back end.



5 or 1. Waive Shelly to make some more cap room.

summarizing for myself (leaving out the bryz section cause thats a pretty unkown one)..

IN: Rutuu, Gill, JJ
OUT: Voracek/JvR, Carle, 2nd and 4th

first off, obviously thats a lot haha.. but i really dont see that as a huge upgrade, especially in comparison to just getting gill (or someone).. you get a little more physical with JJ instead of Carle, and Rutuu instead of Voracek.. but i think the forward swap is definitely a decline in talent.. you add some grit ya, but if the flyers dress 2 or 3 of sestito, rinaldo, harry z, and shelley, they have plenty of grit to go with hartnell and simmonds

i did forget you had carle for a forward.. so you'd have that addition, but again i dont think the flyers need depth.. the flyers are putting out a lineup that took the bruins to a shootout (and should have won the game prior), without 3 top 9 forwards..

so i guess what i'm saying is i'm ok with all those moves, but the carle for a F one.. i dont really see that one being necessary haha

its so funny, whenever you watch a game that is broadcasted nationally the media slobbers carle. we get to see him everyday and i dont think he is anything special. also it seems that lavy and holmgren go out of their way to point out how "good" carle is. i wonder if this is a strategy to try and move him, he probably could fetch a nice return, and no way do i pay that guy more than 4 mil.

in a given week matt carle plays 1 game as our best d-man, 1 game as invisible, and 1 game as our worst defender.. and IMO he's consistent at doing it that way.. i think the flyers problem is that mesz and coburn play that way too, and this season, they've alternated perfectly so that there is a flyers d-man playing terribly + 2 rookies, every game.. they have the rock in timo, someone that plays really well, someone you dont notice, 2 rookies, and a guy that sucks.. rather than having some games where the defense is amazing, some where its pretty solid, and some where its terrible

 

[banditshcky11]

Here's the way I look at it Awaz.

JJ>Carle for the reason you've mentioned. I'm not saying JJ is a total stud, but he is consistent night in and night out and doesn't have those nights where he's either invisible or the worts d-man on the ice.

Ruttu in JVR/Vorachek out- This is a downgrade in offensive talent, but an upgrade in grit and toughness. I know we have Simmonds, Harts, Sestito, Rinaldo but thus for the Rags and Bruins have had the better of us and I attribute this to ten toughness. Their whole rosters are built with guys who hit and fight for every ice of ice and I feel that adding another guy like that would greatly help our chances. Now I'd prefer to send Vorachek out since he is an rfa at the end of the season and I think he will want a large raise that the Flyers may not be willing to pay.

Gill would be a great addition to our blue line, he's big, strong, has playoff experience and plays with a lot of sand paper. He would definitely help stabalize our back end for a cup run.


To re-iterate the trades I purposed were

Carle to Caroline for Ruutu and a 2nd
Vorachelk to LA for JJ or JVR to La for JJ and a 2nd
2nd & 4th to Montreal for Gill

I would still like to see Luke Schenn in the O&B, but not for the ridiculous asking price Burke seems to think he's worth(JVR & a 1st).

 

[4thstreet]

I would NOT do that. Give up on youth for an aging forward. No thanks. His leadership would be valuable, but I would rather have some youth and some help on D.

I agree.
We'd have some seasoned vets in Briere,Jagr and Iggy up front.If they're giving up youth,get some in return.A couple of affordable guys at the moment are Parenteau(Isles) and Moen(Habs).

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

The thing is Carle does a lot right offensively, it's just he seems lost sometimes in his own zone and that wouldn't be that much of a problem if he wasn't a defenseman. If he's paying with a stay at home guy he's actually a pretty damn useful NHL defenseman.

Carle confuses me. I think he is solid and can be very good. But when he makes a mistake, they usually cost us big time. He is a turnover machine.

 

[awaz]

Here's the way I look at it Awaz.

JJ>Carle for the reason you've mentioned. I'm not saying JJ is a total stud, but he is consistent night in and night out and doesn't have those nights where he's either invisible or the worts d-man on the ice.

Ruttu in JVR/Vorachek out- This is a downgrade in offensive talent, but an upgrade in grit and toughness. I know we have Simmonds, Harts, Sestito, Rinaldo but thus for the Rags and Bruins have had the better of us and I attribute this to ten toughness. Their whole rosters are built with guys who hit and fight for every ice of ice and I feel that adding another guy like that would greatly help our chances. Now I'd prefer to send Vorachek out since he is an rfa at the end of the season and I think he will want a large raise that the Flyers may not be willing to pay.

Gill would be a great addition to our blue line, he's big, strong, has playoff experience and plays with a lot of sand paper. He would definitely help stabalize our back end for a cup run.


To re-iterate the trades I purposed were

Carle to Caroline for Ruutu and a 2nd
Vorachelk to LA for JJ or JVR to La for JJ and a 2nd
2nd & 4th to Montreal for Gill

I would still like to see Luke Schenn in the O&B, but not for the ridiculous asking price Burke seems to think he's worth(JVR & a 1st).

i think burke will back down from his request for schenn.. i'm more concerned with him sending schenn to the ducks as part of a package for ryan/getzlaf.. in the end i dont think the ducks will move either of those guys, and i think burke will 'settle' for something like schenn and a 3rd for jvr and a 2nd.. or something like that where picks swap hands, but no 1sts involved

i agree adding gill, if the bidding war doesn't go over a 2nd and 3rd, is a good idea

my point is the flyers faired quite well against the bruins with sestito and shelley in there.. if you put rinaldo in there instead of shelley you have some serious hit-power. i think if you roll out a lineup of

hartnell.roo.jagr
simmonds.briere.voracek
read.couturier.schenn
sestito.talbot.rinaldo

you're not going to get 'outphsyicalled' by anyone.. and if you're having problems, scratch someone and play shelley, then you're REALLY not going to have problems.. and if you play against a smaller team where more skill is needed, or someone gets hurt, you have harry z, holmstrom, and wellwood who can bring speed and tenacity on the forecheck at the very least.. i can honestly say right now the flyers have 16 forwards that i dont mind seeing in an NHL game, IMO they do not need a forward, not at all.

and on the back end..

timo.coburn
mesz.carle
schenn.bourdon/gust

if mesz and coburn bring their physical games, nobody will match that either.. but if you want another big body, bourdon has thrown some real nice hits as well.. and hell if you make the move for gill in addition to the move for schenn.. i dont think anyone is going to fuck w/ the flyers.. actually, that's my ideal plan.. if the flyers trade jvr and a 3rd for schenn and then trade a 2nd and 4th for gill, i dont see any stopping that team. i know that's a lot of picks to give up, but right now the flyers dont need quantity in the draft, they need quality

i agree that physical play was a big problem and IMO the only reason the bruins crushed us last season.. but a 4th line of nodl.betts.shelley doesn't even scare me, let alone a pro hockey player.. if the flyers march out that lineup i dont think anyone will be pushing them around

 

[banditshcky11]

i think burke will back down from his request for schenn.. i'm more concerned with him sending schenn to the ducks as part of a package for ryan/getzlaf.. in the end i dont think the ducks will move either of those guys, and i think burke will 'settle' for something like schenn and a 3rd for jvr and a 2nd.. or something like that where picks swap hands, but no 1sts involved

i agree adding gill, if the bidding war doesn't go over a 2nd and 3rd, is a good idea

my point is the flyers faired quite well against the bruins with sestito and shelley in there.. if you put rinaldo in there instead of shelley you have some serious hit-power. i think if you roll out a lineup of

hartnell.roo.jagr
simmonds.briere.voracek
read.couturier.schenn
sestito.talbot.rinaldo

you're not going to get 'outphsyicalled' by anyone.. and if you're having problems, scratch someone and play shelley, then you're REALLY not going to have problems.. and if you play against a smaller team where more skill is needed, or someone gets hurt, you have harry z, holmstrom, and wellwood who can bring speed and tenacity on the forecheck at the very least.. i can honestly say right now the flyers have 16 forwards that i dont mind seeing in an NHL game, IMO they do not need a forward, not at all.

and on the back end..

timo.coburn
mesz.carle
schenn.bourdon/gust

if mesz and coburn bring their physical games, nobody will match that either.. but if you want another big body, bourdon has thrown some real nice hits as well.. and hell if you make the move for gill in addition to the move for schenn.. i dont think anyone is going to fuck w/ the flyers.. actually, that's my ideal plan.. if the flyers trade jvr and a 3rd for schenn and then trade a 2nd and 4th for gill, i dont see any stopping that team. i know that's a lot of picks to give up, but right now the flyers dont need quantity in the draft, they need quality

i agree that physical play was a big problem and IMO the only reason the bruins crushed us last season.. but a 4th line of nodl.betts.shelley doesn't even scare me, let alone a pro hockey player.. if the flyers march out that lineup i dont think anyone will be pushing them around

The first problem I still see is that JVR is worth more then Schenn and I don't think Burke will realistically concede to that fact. Offensive prospects are given more leeway then defensive prospects in this league and they retain their value better. JVR have been predicted to be a 35+g a yr impact player and Schenn has been projected to be a 2nd pair physical stay at home d-man. Who has the higher value there?


Other then that I see your point and agree with you. I was merely suggesting if we know Carle will be gone at season's end and is in the habit of disappearing for games we might as well get some added grit not to mention Ruutu is no offensive slouch, he scores dirty goals that we'll defintly need come the playoffs(not to mention he can also kill penalties to help relieve some of those minutes off G if his time become and issue). I really hope to not to have to rely on Shelley at all for any kind of contribution from here on out though. Also Coburn and Mez need to find their hitting game soon, we have way too many games coming up against Atlantice division teams that we need to win 75-80% and hopefully not lose any games in regulation(unrealistic possibly, but it'd be nice).


In the end seeing Schenn and Gill here would be amazing, and in the off season we could pursuer Suter if we wanted to. I'm just not sure that's how things are going to play out with Burke overvaluing his players and MTL knowing Gill is in heavy demand. As long as we don't give up Schenn, Cooter, G, Read & our 1st for this year(preferably we keep JVR too) we'll be fine in the long run. I just don't want to see Homer over-pay because he thinks this is a win it all or nothing year.

 

[flyersfan4706]

actually, that's my ideal plan.. if the flyers trade jvr and a 3rd for schenn and then trade a 2nd and 4th for gill, i dont see any stopping that team. i know that's a lot of picks to give up, but right now the flyers dont need quantity in the draft, they need quality

I ejaculated.

Now imagine that d-core with Bryz's play tonight.

Now imagine that d-core and Bryz's play tonight with Briere.

Now imagine that d-core, Bryz's play tonight, and Briere with our first line doing work.

Bricks, you just shat them.

Schenn-Carle
Kimmo-Coburn
Gill-Mez


DAYYYUUMMMNNN

 

[flyersfan4706]

And now these butterflies in my stomach will keep me up all night