Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[The Q]

There were many misses, mostly by Colangelo, who squandered many of the assets amassed by Hinkie in The Process. But drafting Ben Simmons first overall was certainly a mistake. His work ethic and character were already question marks at the time, after a pretty lackluster tenure at LSU. They should have taken Brandon Ingram at 1. He's not a perfect player by any means, and is less talented overall, but he has far fewer holes. Similarly, they could have had Tatum over Fultz. Those were franchise-crippling bad moves.

The funny thing about the fultz deal is he still got you the deal for below market price

Plus, without the deal you’d be the ones bitching about Romeo Langford

 

[tlance]

There were many misses, mostly by Colangelo, who squandered many of the assets amassed by Hinkie in The Process. But drafting Ben Simmons first overall was certainly a mistake. His work ethic and character were already question marks at the time, after a pretty lackluster tenure at LSU. They should have taken Brandon Ingram at 1. He's not a perfect player by any means, and is less talented overall, but he has far fewer holes. Similarly, they could have had Tatum over Fultz. Those were franchise-crippling bad moves.

Yeah, your take on Simmons is way off base.

There was a time after his first season or 2 when Simmons was among the most valuable assets in the NBA because of upside and his rookie contract. Ingram never sniffed that type of value.

They made the right pick in Simmons. Where they went wrong was jn not trading him at the first hints that he wasn’t a great fit with Embiid AND had questionable work ethic.

 

[Iggloo]

But they should have known about his questionable work ethic, no? They have scouts and stuff. It wasn't exactly a state secret.

I guess you could argue that they made the right pick, but should have quickly dealt him, knowing he would plateau as a player.

Or...they could have taken Ingram, who is clearly the tortoise in this tortoise and the hare scenario, a guy who started slower but is going to win the race due to steady improvement in his game.

 

[tlance]

But they should have known about his questionable work ethic, no? They have scouts and stuff. It wasn't exactly a state secret.

I guess you could argue that they made the right pick, but should have quickly dealt him, knowing he would plateau as a player.

Or...they could have taken Ingram, who is clearly the tortoise in this tortoise and the hare scenario, a guy who started slower but is going to win the race due to steady improvement in his game.

Ingram isn’t as good as Simmons today either though.

Only edge Ingram has is that he is actually playing.

 

[trojanfan12]

But they should have known about his questionable work ethic, no? They have scouts and stuff. It wasn't exactly a state secret.

I guess you could argue that they made the right pick, but should have quickly dealt him, knowing he would plateau as a player.

Or...they could have taken Ingram, who is clearly the tortoise in this tortoise and the hare scenario, a guy who started slower but is going to win the race due to steady improvement in his game.

Simmons is the more talented player.

B.I. is really good and getting better, but he's an all star level talent.

Simmons has franchise changing talent.

So it's not a knock on Ingram, it's just an assessment of talent.

Having said that...the best ability is availability and Ingram has that all over Simmons right now.

Also, Simmons refusal (so far)to work on his game, makes Ingram as good or better right now. But if Simmons actually starts to care, he's a good bit better than Ingram.

I'd say Ingram is better for Embiid than Simons is too.

 

[The Q]

Ingram isn’t as good as Simmons today either though.

Only edge Ingram has is that he is actually playing.

He’s really bad on d still

 

[thunderc]

I wonder if Metta has offered up his counselor that helped him so much. I doubt it, he probably knows the score too.

 

[Iggloo]

Simmons is the more talented player.

B.I. is really good and getting better, but he's an all star level talent.

Simmons has franchise changing talent.

So it's not a knock on Ingram, it's just an assessment of talent.

Having said that...the best ability is availability and Ingram has that all over Simmons right now.

Also, Simmons refusal (so far)to work on his game, makes Ingram as good or better right now. But if Simmons actually starts to care, he's a good bit better than Ingram.

I'd say Ingram is better for Embiid than Simons is too.

So...you agree with me?

 

[trojanfan12]

So...you agree with me?

Kind of. Ingram is better because he's an all star caliber player and is actually playing.

He does fit better with Embiid, imo, but he's not the better player.

He's a better free throw shooter than Ben and better at 3's. But Ben is better at everything else.

 

[flyerhawk]

I would sooner take picks than Jerami Grant or Kyrie Irving. Especially Kyrie.

 

[thunderc]

Kind of. Ingram is better because he's an all star caliber player and is actually playing.

He does fit better with Embiid, imo, but he's not the better player.

He's a better free throw shooter than Ben and better at 3's. But Ben is better at everything else.

Ben is much better at not playing for certain. He also has to be better at eating than Ingram is.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ben is much better at not playing for certain. He also has to be better at eating than Ingram is.

There are anorexics that are better at eating than Ingram is.

 

[eaglesnut]

Yeah, your take on Simmons is way off base.

There was a time after his first season or 2 when Simmons was among the most valuable assets in the NBA because of upside and his rookie contract. Ingram never sniffed that type of value.

They made the right pick in Simmons. Where they went wrong was jn not trading him at the first hints that he wasn’t a great fit with Embiid AND had questionable work ethic.

I can buy this. I always wanted to trade him after he couldn't shoot.

How many seasons ago was it where ben showed in the playoffs how worthless he is compared to Tatum? 4 years? He wanted to go to Hollywood atleast 2 years ago. This bitch should have been gone already.

 

[eaglesnut]

Simmons has franchise changing talent.

 

[trojanfan12]

You understand the difference between talent and actual play, right?

 

[eaglesnut]

You understand the difference between talent and actual play, right?

Talent is nice for rookies. Then you develop it and round out your game.

Or you become a baby bitch ben.

 

[trojanfan12]

Talent is nice for rookies. Then you develop it and round out your game.

Or you become a baby bitch ben.

I agree. But not developing, doesn't make him less talented, it makes him lazy and unmotivated. On pure talent, there may not be a more talented player in the league. The dude didn't work on his game at all and still managed to make all star games.

On pure talent, there wasn't a huge difference between Kobe and most other players. The difference was that Kobe was obsessed with working on his game to the point that it probably qualified as a mental health issue. lol

 

[eaglesnut]

I agree. But not developing, doesn't make him less talented, it makes him lazy and unmotivated. On pure talent, there may not be a more talented player in the league. The dude didn't work on his game at all and still managed to make all star games.

On pure talent, there wasn't a huge difference between Kobe and most other players. The difference was that Kobe was obsessed with working on his game to the point that it probably qualified as a mental health issue. lol

If his shooting talent is zero I'm not gonna say he's an amazing talent because the game is basketball. Put the ball in the basket. The farther away you can put the ball in the basket from is the amount of talent you have as a basketball player. That includes, being able to beat someone off the dribble and finish, get foul shots, make foul shots.

ben's athletic talent is more suitable for the sport of Handball.

 

[Iggloo]

Talent gets coaches fired. No one disputes the enormous natural ability Ben Simmons has, but at this point, why would anyone think he is going to grow as a player?

 

[Iggloo]

If his shooting talent is zero I'm not gonna say he's an amazing talent because the game is basketball. Put the ball in the basket. The farther away you can put the ball in the basket from is the amount of talent you have as a basketball player. That includes, being able to beat someone off the dribble and finish, get foul shots, make foul shots.

His athletic talent is more suitable for the sport of Handball.

A lot of players come into the NBA with raw, undeveloped shooting skills, because many have been so physically dominant at lower levels, they never needed to master shooting. So that's a core part of NBA player evaluation--not just what someone can do, but what their trajectory might be if they figure other parts of the game out. Simmons did have an extremely high ceiling as a result, almost Lebron level. But he simply hasn't put in the work and doesn't seem to want to be great like the great ones do. At this point, that is obvious to just about everyone. Some coach I am sure will still think he can turn the guy around, just like people thought that about Lamar Odom, etc. It ain't happening though.