Game Thread: W2: Dumptrack and crew coming to Lumen. 4:05/1:05 CBS/CTV

[Screamin12th]

things I am sick of seeing!
1) offense sits on leads way to early
2) you can't play zone prevent defense for a full half if you want to win but the Hawks do anyway.
3) they REFUSE to blow teams out and just burry them. 10 point lead at half lets sit on that lead.
4) they refuse to work between the numbers.
5) if it's not 20 yards down the field Wilson refuses to throw it.
6) The offense REFUSES to use dump offs to RB

Hawks play a lot of close games that they DO NOT NEED TO PLAY! all because they refuse to step on the throats of other teams. This is football go out there and STOMP on their damn throats and stop leaving the fucking door open for these comebacks.

 

[blstoker]

Sure was a disappointing lose. They seem to be cruising just fine in the first half only to fall apart in the second half. I feel the defense can be OK but isn't great, they need the offense to help limit their time on the field and those bombs the Seahawks hit on actually make it harder on the defense. The offense wasn't running the ball good and the short passing game never developed and once again they became reliant on those big plays to score. We were hoping to see the TE included in the offense and that didn't happen. Need to have the run game clicking and use a short quick passing game to keep defenders from out of our backfield.
I'm not hoping for Pete to get fired, I just want him to make the adjustments needed. Making adjustments that go counter to his roots have not been a strength of his. His offenses have too much of Al Davis style about them. Run, run, bomb and the run game has been flat and that only makes it worse.
The defense is good enough to hold up if the offense can stay on the field long enough to keep the defense fresh. However if the offense doesn't stay on the field for a decent stretch the defense can unravel. Yesterday was case in point.
Onto Minnesota and the Vikings. Going to need a victory or face a uphill battle to make the playoffs. The Vikings have had a rough start losing 2 straight and they'll be motivated not to let that be 3 straight. Davin Cook, Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson is a potent offensive group this is going to be a challenge to win IMO.

This game reminded me a lot of San Diego in 2014. Offense averaged 7.2 yards per play - but was only on the field less than 18 minutes the whole game. Lost 21-30, with a defense that was just exhausted - and that was LOB heyday.

 

[Anointed One]

Onto Minnesota and the Vikings. Going to need a victory or face a uphill battle to make the playoffs. The Vikings have had a rough start losing 2 straight and they'll be motivated not to let that be 3 straight. Davin Cook, Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson is a potent offensive group this is going to be a challenge to win IMO.

This game definitely scares me as well... Cousins has played well against the Hawks of late... Davin Cook is one of the best RB's in the league not named Derrick Henry... Facing 2 of the top runnings backs in b2b weeks could be rough... The Vikings running game is averaging 5 ypc. Kirk Cousins is playing very well 5 TDs/0 INT's/72% completion... Going to be a tough one for sure...

 

[blstoker]

things I am sick of seeing!
1) offense sits on leads way to early
2) you can't play zone prevent defense for a full half if you want to win but the Hawks do anyway.
3) they REFUSE to blow teams out and just burry them. 10 point lead at half lets sit on that lead.
4) they refuse to work between the numbers.
5) if it's not 20 yards down the field Wilson refuses to throw it.
6) The offense REFUSES to use dump offs to RB

Hawks play a lot of close games that they DO NOT NEED TO PLAY! all because they refuse to step on the throats of other teams. This is football go out there and STOMP on their damn throats and stop leaving the fucking door open for these comebacks.

I thought bringing in Waldron would be a breath of fresh air. The first quarter vs. Indy seemed to signal that we were gonna see a new offense - but then it's been 7 quarter of the same old same old.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Yah I'm done.... I'm just beyond tolerance at this point.

I'm not gonna blame the zone too terribly much. As stated, we played that way all day. Though not Legion good, we were still effective. Pressure was brought and the run game shut down. But asking the defense to take on the Herculean task of shutting down Henry for 42 minutes of TOP was a tall order. Tennessee Lynched us, and Pete & co. just didn't seem to see it coming until they couldn't stop it.

I get your point, but giving up 500 plus yard of offense to the Titans is terrible … And those zones are way too predictable, over and over Tannehill just chewed up that defense with little dump off passes and we made no adjustments, we can’t just sit back and give the QB nothing to think about, it’s ridiculous … Norton can’t call a game worth a dam, he’s worthless … Might as well put the headset on a zombie…

 

[Anointed One]

Here is an interesting stat...

Through 10 games, RW has been sacked 10% of his drop backs - 28th in the NFL... He can't continue to blame his OL each year... A lot of this is due to him looking downfield too much instead of taking what the defense gives you at times...



Here is another example: He leads the league in yds/att with the most sacks... This list are the top 10 QB's with the highest yds/att avg... Carr has 5 sacks but he has 39 more attempts than RW... K. Murry has 5 sacks but he has 14 more attempts...

 

[Anointed One]

I thought bringing in Waldron would be a breath of fresh air. The first quarter vs. Indy seemed to signal that we were gonna see a new offense - but then it's been 7 quarter of the same old same old.

There is 1 common denominator and it's Russell Wilson...

 

[Anointed One]

things I am sick of seeing!
1) offense sits on leads way to early
2) you can't play zone prevent defense for a full half if you want to win but the Hawks do anyway.
3) they REFUSE to blow teams out and just burry them. 10 point lead at half lets sit on that lead.
4) they refuse to work between the numbers.
5) if it's not 20 yards down the field Wilson refuses to throw it.
6) The offense REFUSES to use dump offs to RB

Hawks play a lot of close games that they DO NOT NEED TO PLAY! all because they refuse to step on the throats of other teams. This is football go out there and STOMP on their damn throats and stop leaving the fucking door open for these comebacks.

I'm with you... Specifically on the 5th and 6th point...

5) I'm beginning to think that our OL hasn't been the problem all these years - RW has shoulder a large part of the blame... He complained about the OL in the offseason and we got him a new group (Very solid group imo) and it's the same ole stuff... Hangs onto the ball too long...

6) And why can't we take what the defense gives us? Derrick Henry had 6 receptions for 55 yards and the Titans rarely utilize him in the passing game... But guess what? Our defense was giving it him... Why don't we take advantage of what the defense gives us as well? Because it won't be an ESPN highlight?

 

[AceKeptic]

things I am sick of seeing!
1) offense sits on leads way to early
2) you can't play zone prevent defense for a full half if you want to win but the Hawks do anyway.
3) they REFUSE to blow teams out and just burry them. 10 point lead at half lets sit on that lead.
4) they refuse to work between the numbers.
5) if it's not 20 yards down the field Wilson refuses to throw it.
6) The offense REFUSES to use dump offs to RB

Hawks play a lot of close games that they DO NOT NEED TO PLAY! all because they refuse to step on the throats of other teams. This is football go out there and STOMP on their damn throats and stop leaving the fucking door open for these comebacks.

In full agreement, but as for #1, let's not forget our tendency to occasionally give early leeway just so we can try to come back from the deficit. That's happened at times, too, and THAT isn't always successful.

This is all part of "pushing your luck," which Pete and Co. seems to insist on doing on a game-to-game basis. Problem is, everyone else is wise to that, and Titans took full advantage of it! If Pete was every bit as disgusted as he was quoted to be in the post-game conference, then he better pull his head out and do something about it! What happened yesterday was unforgivable, no matter what kind of season we're supposed to have.

And I'll say it again just to make things clear about #2: ZONE IS FOR PUSSIES.

 

[Jikkle]

There is 1 common denominator and it's Russell Wilson...

I'd say he's part of it but from my outsider view I'd say the issue is you have a head coach that wants to run the ball 60% of the time, a QB that wants to pass it most of the time but 20+ yards, and an OC that was a passing game coordinator from a passing attack that's about a timing quick passing game where you get yardage from YAC.

Basically, the 3 power players behind the offense are all pretty much incompatible with each other and it shows on the field. It could still all come together with time and finding some common ground that works but right now you have to change some people that are set in their ways.

 

[Jikkle]

I am not on the fire pete bandwagon because you simply do not fire coaches that give you winning seasons and division titles. I would rather us have these winning seasons then start tearing things apart and now we are a team trying to find ourselves like the Bears, Giants or Dolphins getting our asses beat by the Rams, Cardinals or 49ers

That's what makes him the worst kind of coach to have. He's a good coach that has success and you could do a lot worse but he hasn't shown really any sign that he can lead the team back to the Super Bowl.

So you're stuck in a loop of always thinking that you're so close and almost there when in reality it's basically been about the same quality of roster for the past few years.

But when you look at the playoffs post 2014 it just hasn't been great. 3 wins, two of them against 9-7 teams, and one won because the kicker missed a makeable game winning field goal.

That would be more forgivable if it wasn't for the fact you have had an at worst top 5 QB in the league and easily top 3 in the NFC so you should at least have a conference championship appearance or two in that span or a couple wins against a great opponent.

Now I primarily lay that blame on Carroll but Wilson does deserve a share of that blame as well as he's had some mediocre playoff games in that span as well.

 

[blstoker]

I get your point, but giving up 500 plus yard of offense to the Titans is terrible … And those zones are way too predictable, over and over Tannehill just chewed up that defense with little dump off passes and we made no adjustments, we can’t just sit back and give the QB nothing to think about, it’s ridiculous … Norton can’t call a game worth a dam, he’s worthless … Might as well put the headset on a zombie…

I don't know what people expect from Tennessee. They hear, run first, and Derrick Henry, and they seem to think - three yards and a cloud of dust. That isn't entire accurate, though. Tennessee was the #2 ranked offense last year in yardage.

I'm not saying 500 yards is great, I'm saying that until they got gassed by being on the field too much, the only player who was consistently hurting the defense is Julio Jones - and I'm not gonna condemn them for that since Julio has made better defenses look even worse throughout his career.

Seattle had to pick their poison. To start the game, Tennessee was using play action and dropping the ball over the LBs heads, in front of the safeties. Then, the LBs weren't biting on the play action and getting deeper in their drops and they just took the 3 yard passes and turned them into 6-10 yard games. Seattle did try to counter that by having Adams play man on the RBs, but he was lined up in a way that he was basically moved over to limit YAC, and not prevent the catch (I assume to disguise what they were doing with him).

I guess the real point is, the defense was set up to fail yesterday.

 

[Anointed One]

Star quarterback Russell Wilson was 18 for 22 passing at one point, but after that he went 4 for 9 and didn’t find the end zone. Carroll said Wilson played well and “took advantage of the game” until Seattle’s lone drive in overtime.

“We had a play-action pass and I wish we could have controlled the ball and checked the ball down there, but he took a shot to Tyler (Lockett that was incomplete) and then we went to DK (Metcalf) on second down (that was incomplete), and then our opportunity escapes us there and they get the ball inside the 40,” Carroll said. “That sequence was the one I wish Russ could have helped us there and made completions. We just needed to move the ball there and change the field position at least in overtime because you’re playing for a field goal right there.” ~ Pete Carroll

Also the series prior to that we had 3rd and 3 and RW threw up a jump ball to D. Metcalf resulting in a punt... There had to have been a better option...

 

[blstoker]

Also the series prior to that we had 3rd and 3 and RW threw up a jump ball to D. Metcalf resulting in a punt... There had to have been a better option...

Yeah, that was a lack of situational awareness. We needed a first and to keep the d off the field, not a home run shot with limited probability of success.

 

[returnofjakedog]

It was a serious "shit the bed" game. Henry destroyed us the whole 2nd half. The D was exhausted.

PC is largely to blame for this one, and I do hate the zone D we default to with any lead. But calling for his head in week #2 is as premature though.

The running game sucked, the TEs got 1 recept for 3 yards, etc. Hard to lay specific blame when so many aspects fail.

Note that the schedule is tough for the upcoming games: @Minny, @SF, home vs Rams, @Pitt, home vs NO Saints. They need to win at least 3 of these to stay afloat. If they don't then things could get ugly. Then they get the Jags at home, then their bye week.

If we could go into the bye week at 5-3 I would be fine. But the team is going to have to fight like hell to get there.

 

[uwdawgfan]

Is it just too obvious that Norton has to go? Zero adjustments when Henry was running right through us.....

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

That was our defense the first half of the season in 2020... Norton is the common denominator... Hopefully he improves his play calling and adjust quicker than he did last season...

Here is an interesting stat...

Through 10 games, RW has been sacked 10% of his drop backs - 28th in the NFL... He can't continue to blame his OL each year... A lot of this is due to him looking downfield too much instead of taking what the defense gives you at times...

View attachment 280396

Here is another example: He leads the league in yds/att with the most sacks... This list are the top 10 QB's with the highest yds/att avg... Carr has 5 sacks but he has 39 more attempts than RW... K. Murry has 5 sacks but he has 14 more attempts...

View attachment 280397

Wow, good stuff … Yeah Russ creates some of those situations trying extend play’s, definitely not all on the O-line … He’s really good when he escapes, but as he gets older he’s not moving like he was…

 

[seattlefan75]

That's what makes him the worst kind of coach to have. He's a good coach that has success and you could do a lot worse but he hasn't shown really any sign that he can lead the team back to the Super Bowl.

So you're stuck in a loop of always thinking that you're so close and almost there when in reality it's basically been about the same quality of roster for the past few years.

But when you look at the playoffs post 2014 it just hasn't been great. 3 wins, two of them against 9-7 teams, and one won because the kicker missed a makeable game winning field goal.

That would be more forgivable if it wasn't for the fact you have had an at worst top 5 QB in the league and easily top 3 in the NFC so you should at least have a conference championship appearance or two in that span or a couple wins against a great opponent.

Now I primarily lay that blame on Carroll but Wilson does deserve a share of that blame as well as he's had some mediocre playoff games in that span as well.

I disagree,

I would comfortably say I think the worst kind of coach is a coach that lands your team in last place in your division and constantly in the top end of the draft. I would much rather win 11-13 games and lose in the playoffs then be a team constantly searching for a QB (Giants, Broncos, Bears, Dolphins, Washington) not really going anywhere as an organization with no real identity.

Honestly what coach besides Bill Belichek has taken his team to multiple super bowls? The packers and Saints could never go back when then won it and one changed coaches and that didnt make any difference. To me making huge changes like GM and coaching change leaves a huge opening for things to crumble and now you are drafting in the top of the draft and life sucks.

 

[JMR]

Disappointing loss for sure, cannot remember surrendering neither a half-time nor 4th quarter lead that large and losing in the PC/RW era. The thing that jumped out at me the most was the indiscipline, particularly on defense. Way too many penalties and mental errors and not enough difference-making plays. It's too early to know if this team doesn't have discipline, but they didn't play with it on Sunday. My other takeaways:

• Not sure if it would have been the difference, but the poor offensive play in the 2nd half made me immediately wonder if it was the result of zero pre-season snaps in the new offense for our starters. Aside from the 3rd qtr last week, Indy's D wasn't able to provide much of a challenge. TEN bucked up against us in the 2nd half in this game, and we couldn't handle it.
• The D looked vulnerable in the middle/underneath. I thought they held up at the LOS fantastically for 90% of the game, but TEN made hay throwing underneath in the middle.
• I'm a but flummoxed by how we are using DK in this offense through 8 quarters. He had no targets at all in the 1st half of week 1, and the only deep shots we seem to be giving him now are down the sideline when he has to go up and twist his body to make some amazing catch. Where are the deep bombs down the seams or in the middle where he can just outrun the coverage? It's only 2 games, but so far I don't think we are taking advantage of his strengths.
• What happened to the TEs this week?
• Why were we almost completely inept at running the ball??
• As weird as this sounds in my head, I think Dee Eskridge might be critical to executing this offense. He's the only guy on the roster in my opinion who can run those jet sweeps effectively on a consistent basis, and he's also got the juice and toughness to take those underneath crossers & bubbles and get out of them what we are hoping to see on the regular. I know we haven't seen him do it much, but it's easy to tell when he has the ball that it looks different than when anyone else on the team has it.
• I hate the XP. I am not crushing Myers for the missed XP because he's been more than good for us and TEN missed a pretty short FG as well....but I why are we purposely making a 1 point kick more consequential than necessary? I would rather just give 7 for a TD and get on with it than having to hold your breath to see if someone who had nothing to do with the score can't mess it up. Sure, go for 2 if you want and then you only get 6 if you don't convert. I hate the XP.

A long season is longer this year by 1 game, so all is not lost here. It was a game we should have one if those exist in this league, but almost every team will have those this year. Where we go from here and how we bounce back will tell the story more than a crappy 2nd half vs the Titans. Hopefully the between-the-ears stuff gets fixed immediately.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I disagree,

I would comfortably say I think the worst kind of coach is a coach that lands your team in last place in your division and constantly in the top end of the draft. I would much rather win 11-13 games and lose in the playoffs then be a team constantly searching for a QB (Giants, Broncos, Bears, Dolphins, Washington) not really going anywhere as an organization with no real identity.

Honestly what coach besides Bill Belichek has taken his team to multiple super bowls? The packers and Saints could never go back when then won it and one changed coaches and that didnt make any difference. To me making huge changes like GM and coaching change leaves a huge opening for things to crumble and now you are drafting in the top of the draft and life sucks.

Jikkle is a reasonable and respectful poster in this thread........but he is still a 49ers fan so he will try to sow negative seeds of dissension, even if it is on a subconscious level.

He is also telling us that PC, Waldron, and Wilson are all incompatible, which is pure speculation at this point. So take it with a grain of salt.