NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[WiggyRuss]

So franchise QB’s, in my mind (by division):

Josh Allen
Mahomes
Carr
Big Ben
Lamar
Baker
Burrow
Tannehill
Rivers
Herbert
Watson
Dak
Wilson
Goff
Murray
Jimmy G
Rodgers
Cousins
Stafford
Brees
Brady


Bridgewater (some can, I won’t yet)

That’s 22. 23 including Teddy. So average would be 11-14 range. Slightly above average franchise QB 8-10 or so...sounds about right

I can’t call Tua one yet but Burrow and Herbert are imo.

eesshh......i probably have a different idea of "franchise QB"....I understand your list since its so hard to find a good one and teams are loathe to give up even a decent/solid QB once they have found one---- and shit- a guy like Tannehill or Garrapolo can get you deep into the playoffs.

but actual "franchise QB's in my mind" are less numerous.

The No Doubt Guys
-Mahomes
-Allen
-Lamar Jackson
-D. Watson
-Prescot (at least pre-injury- maybe not anymore since that was devastating)
-Rodgers
-Wilson

The Young Guys That Look Like Franchise QB's
-Baker (all though i think he is very very close to graduating from this list if he has not already- honestly hardest call i had to make)
-Joe Burrow- just a matter of time
-Kyler Murray (prob same with Baker- I really should prob. move Murray and Baker up at this point)
-Herbert- has looked awesome
(i dont know if Tua deserves to be grouped with these 4 very good, very young QB's)

The Old Guard
-Drew Brees
-Tom Brady
-Matt Ryan
-Ben Rothlisberger
-Rivers
-Stafford

All our old guys that won be around a helluva lot longer- but are solid options. I dont know if any are still "elite" (maybe Brees?).

He Is Our "Franchise Guy" Since Its not Likely we Find Someone Truly Elite
-Cousins
-Garrapallo
-Carr
-Tannehill
-Goff

To varying degrees you can call all those guys "franchise guys". It surprises me so much that Wentz is not on this list -but at this point he just cant be. I look at these tiers though and i think every one of these guys COULD win you a Super Bowl under the right conditions.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Tannehill just might deserve getting promoted on that list when you really break it down. Stafford and Ryan probably too since they both have juice left. Baker and Murray too---it would be very surprising at this point to not see those guys have a lot of success in years to come. Burrow is just an A+ prospect too where its only a matter of time and health- and Herbert as well. Those 4 guys young guys are just studs and each bring their own special quality.

Tua, Jones and Darnold are definitely not totally out of the category yet but i think everyone believes they gotta see more before those guys are committed to.


At the end of the day- if you are defining "franchise QB" as a guy a team is committed to as a QB and could possibly take you deep into the playoffs then their are probably 22-24 guys.

if you are saying franchise QB is the guys that can elevate their teams and are the most valuable guys in the league- 8 to 12. And it gets really hard when you are deciding whether to include Brees or Brady...maybe even Rivers (or Big Ben) type guys at this point in their careers when this season or next are almost assuredly their last.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Dwayne Haskins? lol....yah not so much. That was a BAD pick.

 

[tlance]

Dwayne Haskins? lol....yah not so much. That was a BAD pick.

Which based on the data, I said as soon as the WFT made it.

And even took crap from people here saying I was wrong to say he had zero chance to be a decent NFL starter.

Literally no chance.

 

[trojanfan12]

who's bench would you rather have?

Warriors or Cavs? Its pretty close but i gotta say Cavs.

Cavs bench:

PG: Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr.
SF: Cedi Osman
PF/C Larry Nance Jr.
C: JaVale McGee

(Windler/Delly/Dotson)


Warriors Bench (with Draymond Healthy to be Fair)

PG: Brad Wanamaker
SG: Damion Lee
SF: Kent Bazmore
PF: Eric Paschall
C: Kevin Looney


I would rather have Exum than Wanamaker.
I would raher have Porter than Lee
I would rather have Osman than Bazemore
and Larry Nance Jr. is a very solid player that would be one of the best bench bigs on any team and is much better than Paschall or
Kevin Looney and JaVale McGee are washes.


I mean- the Warriors are obviously way better than the Cavs----- but the Warriors bench is very very unimpressive. I gotta think its one of the 5 worst in the NBA.

Hardly a fair comparison. The Cavs have 2 time champion Javale McGee on their bench.

 

[Shanemansj13]

eesshh......i probably have a different idea of "franchise QB"....I understand your list since its so hard to find a good one and teams are loathe to give up even a decent/solid QB once they have found one---- and shit- a guy like Tannehill or Garrapolo can get you deep into the playoffs.

but actual "franchise QB's in my mind" are less numerous.

The No Doubt Guys
-Mahomes
-Allen
-Lamar Jackson
-D. Watson
-Prescot (at least pre-injury- maybe not anymore since that was devastating)
-Rodgers
-Wilson

The Young Guys That Look Like Franchise QB's
-Baker (all though i think he is very very close to graduating from this list if he has not already- honestly hardest call i had to make)
-Joe Burrow- just a matter of time
-Kyler Murray (prob same with Baker- I really should prob. move Murray and Baker up at this point)
-Herbert- has looked awesome
(i dont know if Tua deserves to be grouped with these 4 very good, very young QB's)

The Old Guard
-Drew Brees
-Tom Brady
-Matt Ryan
-Ben Rothlisberger
-Rivers
-Stafford

All our old guys that won be around a helluva lot longer- but are solid options. I dont know if any are still "elite" (maybe Brees?).

He Is Our "Franchise Guy" Since Its not Likely we Find Someone Truly Elite
-Cousins
-Garrapallo
-Carr
-Tannehill
-Goff

To varying degrees you can call all those guys "franchise guys". It surprises me so much that Wentz is not on this list -but at this point he just cant be. I look at these tiers though and i think every one of these guys COULD win you a Super Bowl under the right conditions.

Ohh I get your point and I agree but they are franchise guys to that franchise imo. Cousins got a long-term, big deal, that means he was their franchise guy. Has he lived up to it to a certain extent? No, but in my mind still lesser of the franchise guys. In my mind there are different levels to a franchise QB, like you said.

 

[Shanemansj13]

who's bench would you rather have?

Warriors or Cavs? Its pretty close but i gotta say Cavs.

Cavs bench:

PG: Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr.
SF: Cedi Osman
PF/C Larry Nance Jr.
C: JaVale McGee

(Windler/Delly/Dotson)


Warriors Bench (with Draymond Healthy to be Fair)

PG: Brad Wanamaker
SG: Damion Lee
SF: Kent Bazmore
PF: Eric Paschall
C: Kevin Looney

I mean- the Warriors are obviously way better than the Cavs----- but the Warriors bench is very very unimpressive. I gotta think its one of the 5 worst in the NBA.

I would take the Cavs bench lol.

Cavs are going to have some guys out the first game vs the Hornets. Love, Exum and of course Porter Jr. Charges were dismissed so that is good but I'm not sure how much time he will miss. Also, want to see LaMelo. Should be a fun one.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Which based on the data, I said as soon as the WFT made it.

And even took crap from people here saying I was wrong to say he had zero chance to be a decent NFL starter.

Literally no chance.

If he doesn't want to improve, he has no desire, no work ethic....so maybe a ton of teams just saw that in interviews but I also said from the start. There was no reason he should have been a 1st round pick, huge reach. I said before the draft he should have stayed another year but in the end if he doesn't ever have the work ethic he would never succeed. Now, I did say it was too early to say but I had no idea the dude was a total slapdick and was putting no time and effort into this...you think get benched would put fire in him? The exact opposite occurred, he has zero shot in the league at this point.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Hardly a fair comparison. The Cavs have 2 time champion Javale McGee on their bench.

He will be 6th man of the year, go ahead and take that to the bank.

 

[dtgold88]

No no u don’t need to. It was more how r payments handled. By him personally or by a site.0

him personally. I usually send via paypal. He's legit. I've been paid on a tourney pool before.

 

[dtgold88]

if the browns end 11-5 and miss the playoffs ill be so pissed.

Think better word for me would be disappointed. And it wont be at the Browns. Hard to call it a bad season at 11-5 and future looks bright.

OK...pissed works.

 

[dtgold88]

who's bench would you rather have?

Warriors or Cavs? Its pretty close but i gotta say Cavs.

Cavs bench:

PG: Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr.
SF: Cedi Osman
PF/C Larry Nance Jr.
C: JaVale McGee

(Windler/Delly/Dotson)


Warriors Bench (with Draymond Healthy to be Fair)

PG: Brad Wanamaker
SG: Damion Lee
SF: Kent Bazmore
PF: Eric Paschall
C: Kevin Looney


I would rather have Exum than Wanamaker.
I would raher have Porter than Lee
I would rather have Osman than Bazemore
and Larry Nance Jr. is a very solid player that would be one of the best bench bigs on any team and is much better than Paschall or
Kevin Looney and JaVale McGee are washes.


I mean- the Warriors are obviously way better than the Cavs----- but the Warriors bench is very very unimpressive. I gotta think its one of the 5 worst in the NBA.

I agree but without doing any research I wonder if most rebuilding teams would be the same compared to contenders who might spend more on their starters.

 

[dtgold88]

Tannehill just might deserve getting promoted on that list when you really break it down. Stafford and Ryan probably too since they both have juice left. Baker and Murray too---it would be very surprising at this point to not see those guys have a lot of success in years to come. Burrow is just an A+ prospect too where its only a matter of time and health- and Herbert as well. Those 4 guys young guys are just studs and each bring their own special quality.

Tua, Jones and Darnold are definitely not totally out of the category yet but i think everyone believes they gotta see more before those guys are committed to.


At the end of the day- if you are defining "franchise QB" as a guy a team is committed to as a QB and could possibly take you deep into the playoffs then their are probably 22-24 guys.

if you are saying franchise QB is the guys that can elevate their teams and are the most valuable guys in the league- 8 to 12. And it gets really hard when you are deciding whether to include Brees or Brady...maybe even Rivers (or Big Ben) type guys at this point in their careers when this season or next are almost assuredly their last.

After original list was gonna say I might add Tua, Jones and darnold as you did. we'll know what Jets think of darnold when draft rolls around. IF they think Lawrence is andrew Luck (minus injury) not sure it knocks Darnold off the list to take him as if you can get a QB you think is elite you take him no matter who your QB is (if not elite). But if they took anyone other than darnold.......

 

[dtgold88]

Which based on the data, I said as soon as the WFT made it.

And even took crap from people here saying I was wrong to say he had zero chance to be a decent NFL starter.

Literally no chance.

Thing is you can say that about every QB picked around where he is and you'll be right far more often than not. No other data/analysis needed.

 

[Wamu]

Which based on the data, I said as soon as the WFT made it.

And even took crap from people here saying I was wrong to say he had zero chance to be a decent NFL starter.

Literally no chance.

I'll admit I was one of those people. You were right. I was wrong. My bad. Was hoping he'd do better.

 

[dtgold88]

I'll admit I was one of those people. You were right. I was wrong. My bad. Was hoping he'd do better.

I hoped the kid would prove him wrong but just going by the circumstances didn't see it happening. 3rd QB taken at #15 in draft? Those are the only "numbers" needed to think bust for that one.

 

[Wamu]

I hoped the kid would prove him wrong but just going by the circumstances didn't see it happening. 3rd QB taken at #15 in draft? Those are the only "numbers" needed to think bust for that one.

From stuff I've been watching his attitude and maturity are being called out. Not good. Seems like right now he's his own worst enemy. But if he's still in Washington after this year I'd be surprised. Or maybe he's gone before that.

 

[tlance]

Thing is you can say that about every QB picked around where he is and you'll be right far more often than not. No other data/analysis needed.

You are hilarious.

So, you want to claim I was wrong about Baker when I made a pretty vague could go either way comment about him.

But, you won’t give me any credit for the players I did go strong on and was correct because it is “easy to pick”.

I was vague about Baker because the data on him was inconclusive. It isn’t inconclusive on guys like Haskins.

 

[dtgold88]

You are hilarious.

So, you want to claim I was wrong about Baker when I made a pretty vague could go either way comment about him.

But, you won’t give me any credit for the players I did go strong on and was correct because it is “easy to pick”.

I was vague about Baker because the data on him was inconclusive. It isn’t inconclusive on guys like Haskins.

what is hilarious in all this were 2 things for me. You complained I moved the goal posts when I didn't, then you moved the goal posts......"Baker is slightly above average". No, wait, "Baker is a slightly above avg. FRANCHISE QB". second was you saying your guy said Baker would succeed if he had a coaching staff who played to his strength and might struggle if they did not. Earthshattering info, I tell ya.

As for Haskins, no, you do not get credit for saying the 3rd QB chosen in the draft and at the 15th pick will be a bust. I'll make that statement for any QB in any draft in the same range....and be right nearly every time.

 

[tlance]

what is hilarious in all this were 2 things for me. You complained I moved the goal posts when I didn't, then you moved the goal posts......"Baker is slightly above average". No, wait, "Baker is a slightly above avg. FRANCHISE QB". second was you saying your guy said Baker would succeed if he had a coaching staff who played to his strength and might struggle if they did not. Earthshattering info, I tell ya.

As for Haskins, no, you do not get credit for saying the 3rd QB chosen in the draft and at the 15th pick will be a bust. I'll make that statement for any QB in any draft in the same range....and be right nearly every time.

Awesome. But you would be blindly guessing. I’m not.