NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[tlance]

after seeing him with an adult as coach (albeit still never in the same offense for more than a year) do you think he's right?

Allen looks like a star. LJ won an MVP.

Baker looks like a quality franchise QB, which is exactly consistent with what he said.

Yeah, he nailed it.

 

[tlance]

The Browns are winning the S.B. year! Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was doing my bestest wiggy impersonation. If LeBron doesn't win MVP this year it'll ruin his already ruined legacy.

I said it before, but I do think that Cleveland and Baltimore are the 2 AFC teams most likely to beat them.

I don’t think Cleveland will beat them, but they are among the toughest KC matchups because of their ability to run the ball and control the clock.

 

[dtgold88]

Right now, Baker looks like what I've been saying he is all along. A good, NFL level franchise quarterback that you can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with. He needs a solid running game, a line that can protect him and a couple of guys who can catch the ball.

Him not having had an adult as a coach and not having the same system is a fair point.

Right now, I see him as a "poor man's Russell Wilson". He can make throws, he has enough athleticism that he's not a statue, so he can move around and make plays outside the pocket.

The question is, now that he has a grownup for a head coach and an OC that seems to know how to use his talents...can he take the next step and instead of being a "poor man's Russell Wilson", be a "rich man's Baker Mayfield".

And honestly, even if he never takes that next step, as long as Stefanski is the coach, he's going to be your qb for a long time and your Browns are going to win a lot of games.

agree with a lot of this. But if we go by the last 5-6 games (a couple in hurricane like weather) he has played at an elite level. No doubt Chubb and Hunt help, but he could still not be stopped in last 3 games even when they were not running so well. Russell Wilson comparison fair, but maybe shortchanging him a little. Wilson definitely a better runner but think Baker throws the ball better. difference is wilson has had more success in his career and Baker needs to do it rest of year and again next year to sniff be on Wilson level. And I'll admit as a rookie I thought he could be elite......came off that after last season and just hoped top 10....now thinking eventual top 5 possible again so I'm definitely guilty of Prisoner of moment with him.

as for Stefanski, my God....cannot think of anything bad to say about him at all. Offense was just surgical last night against a solid D.

 

[dtgold88]

Allen looks like a star. LJ won an MVP.

Baker looks like a quality franchise QB, which is exactly consistent with what he said.

Yeah, he nailed it.

"slightly above average" = quality franchise QB?

 

[Wamu]

I said it before, but I do think that Cleveland and Baltimore are the 2 AFC teams most likely to beat them.

I don’t think Cleveland will beat them, but they are among the toughest KC matchups because of their ability to run the ball and control the clock.

It's just a great change for me watching a decent Browns team this year after all the previous years of total dysfunction. Hope they can finish the regular season strong. A win over the Steelers in two weeks would be nice.

 

[tlance]

"slightly above average" = quality franchise QB?

Yep.

32 NFL teams. Probably 20-25 have (or think they have) a franchise QB.

Slightly above average puts him among the top 12-15 QBs in the league. Which is right where I would rank Baker. Somewhere between 10 and 15. Probably closer to 10.

 

[dtgold88]

I thought you meant he was doing that this season. Either way he shouldn't have said that nonsense in the first place.

agree was nuts, but saw this from a friend and it floored me (have not checked as don't have access to PFF)......

PFF has Baker rated as the #2 QB in the entire league since week 7, in a virtual tie with Mahomes. That's half a season, and that includes games played in horrific weather. A legit case can be made that Baker has been the best QB in all of football during that timeframe. In his first year in a new system.

 

[Wamu]

agree was nuts, but saw this from a friend and it floored me (have not checked as don't have access to PFF)......

PFF has Baker rated as the #2 QB in the entire league since week 7, in a virtual tie with Mahomes. That's half a season, and that includes games played in horrific weather. A legit case can be made that Baker has been the best QB in all of football during that timeframe. In his first year in a new system.

Holy crap!

 

[dtgold88]

Yep.

32 NFL teams. Probably 20-25 have (or think they have) a franchise QB.

Slightly above average puts him among the top 12-15 QBs in the league. Which is right where I would rank Baker. Somewhere between 10 and 15. Probably closer to 10.

Thinking you are spinning this incorrectly and are all over the place. Your friend called him a slightly above average QB, not slightly above average franchise QB. He did not "nail it" no matter how you try and spin it.

Guessing most think quality franchise QB is bottom of the top 10 (8-10). as do you if you claim there are 20 franchise QBs. How is a quality one only 10-15 of 20-25?

Look your friend missed on one. Had you just said he's good and a guy you trust who would question that? But you said he's never wrong....and are even doubling down when even according to your own logic (despite poor math) he was wrong.

 

[flyerhawk]

 

[tlance]

Thinking you are spinning this incorrectly and are all over the place. Your friend called him a slightly above average QB, not slightly above average franchise QB. He did not "nail it" no matter how you try and spin it.

Guessing most think quality franchise QB is bottom of the top 10 (8-10). as do you if you claim there are 20 franchise QBs. How is a quality one only 10-15 of 20-25?

Look your friend missed on one. Had you just said he's good and a guy you trust who would question that? But you said he's never wrong....and are even doubling down when even according to your own logic (despite poor math) he was wrong.

You have no idea what my friend’s data is because I have not told you, and I won’t.

But for the people I have shared the data with, it makes perfect sense.

And he hasn’t missed anything. Like I said all along, Baker had the look of a quality franchise QB. Nothing has changed.

But, he has a couple big weeks in a row, and you want to tout him like he is a superstar. Shocker.

 

[tlance]

@dtgold is such a clown.

My friend’s data had Mayfield 3rd in the class. He performed slightly above average compared to other QBs.

His analysis was that Baker was expected to be a franchise QB and is the type of player who could do well in a good system suited to his skill set but could struggle in a system that wasn’t a great fit.

That is exactly what we have seen from Mayfield to date.

But go ahead and try to make a semantical argument about something which frankly you have absolutely no clue.

 

[Shanemansj13]

@dtgold is such a clown.

My friend’s data had Mayfield 3rd in the class. He performed slightly above average compared to other QBs.

His analysis was that Baker was expected to be a franchise QB and is the type of player who could do well in a good system suited to his skill set but could struggle in a system that wasn’t a great fit.

That is exactly what we have seen from Mayfield to date.

But go ahead and try to make a semantical argument about something which frankly you have absolutely no clue.

Yeah I mean can’t disagree with that. He looks to be 3rd in that class, 2nd as a passer bc of Josh Allen’s crazy, supernatural growth as an accurate passer lol. I put Lamar at 2nd bc he did win a MVP and he is easily the greatest athlete we’ve ever seen at the position by far, his legs sets up his passing ability but at times he makes great throws just still inconsistent. I feel like he is definitely a system guy as well but you could say that about a ton of QB’s. Either way as of right now I would take Baker for 3rd considering how great Allen has been and how dynamic Lamar is as well. If Baker keeps playing like he has been than he will jump to 2nd.

 

[tlance]

Yeah I mean can’t disagree with that. He looks to be 3rd in that class, 2nd as a passer bc of Josh Allen’s crazy, supernatural growth as an accurate passer lol. I put Lamar at 2nd bc he did win a MVP and he is easily the greatest athlete we’ve ever seen at the position by far, his legs sets up his passing ability but at times he makes great throws just still inconsistent. I feel like he is definitely a system guy as well but you could say that about a ton of QB’s. Either way as of right now I would take Baker for 3rd considering how great Allen has been and how dynamic Lamar is as well. If Baker keeps playing like he has been than he will jump to 2nd.

Yeah, I think there is high probability Baker has a better career than LJ because his skill set projects to last longer.

LJ isn’t always going to be faster than everyone on the field.

 

[trojanfan12]

"slightly above average" = quality franchise QB?

I would assume that slightly above average means slightly above average for an NFL quarterback. An average NFL quarterback is pretty much a guy who can be a starter in the NFL.

So slightly above average would equal a quality franchise qb.

 

[dtgold88]

You have no idea what my friend’s data is because I have not told you, and I won’t.

But for the people I have shared the data with, it makes perfect sense.

And he hasn’t missed anything. Like I said all along, Baker had the look of a quality franchise QB. Nothing has changed.

But, he has a couple big weeks in a row, and you want to tout him like he is a superstar. Shocker.

I don't need to know the fake guru's data. If Baker is a quality franchise QB by simple math that is better than slightly above average even by your own flawed numbers.

32 QBs. slightly above average is 13-15th best.
If there are 20 franchise QBs as you said, the 10th best is average. stands to reason you'd need to be above that to be called quality.

He missed.

 

[dtgold88]

@dtgold is such a clown.

My friend’s data had Mayfield 3rd in the class. He performed slightly above average compared to other QBs.

His analysis was that Baker was expected to be a franchise QB and is the type of player who could do well in a good system suited to his skill set but could struggle in a system that wasn’t a great fit.

That is exactly what we have seen from Mayfield to date.

But go ahead and try to make a semantical argument about something which frankly you have absolutely no clue.

slightly above average QB does not = quality franchise QB in any world. You are the one who says your friend is wrong (and he is).

spin, dance, deflect, whatever...that wont change.

never mind the "expert analysis" that a QB would do well in a system that would suit his skillset and struggle in one that did not. Bet it took a lot of research and formulas to come up with that nugget.

Pure comedy.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah I mean can’t disagree with that. He looks to be 3rd in that class, 2nd as a passer bc of Josh Allen’s crazy, supernatural growth as an accurate passer lol. I put Lamar at 2nd bc he did win a MVP and he is easily the greatest athlete we’ve ever seen at the position by far, his legs sets up his passing ability but at times he makes great throws just still inconsistent. I feel like he is definitely a system guy as well but you could say that about a ton of QB’s. Either way as of right now I would take Baker for 3rd considering how great Allen has been and how dynamic Lamar is as well. If Baker keeps playing like he has been than he will jump to 2nd.

Unless you think slightly below avg. QB = quality franchise QB (which any reasonable person would not) you can and should disagree with what's been discussed. It's not just is he the 3rd best in the group (which is debatable).

and, yes, most QBs are system guys. The GOAT is a system QB.

 

[Black Adam]

@dtgold is such a clown.

My friend’s data had Mayfield 3rd in the class. He performed slightly above average compared to other QBs.

His analysis was that Baker was expected to be a franchise QB and is the type of player who could do well in a good system suited to his skill set but could struggle in a system that wasn’t a great fit.

That is exactly what we have seen from Mayfield to date.

But go ahead and try to make a semantical argument about something which frankly you have absolutely no clue.

was actually very disappointed with the Joe Burrow injury. Can't wait to see what that kid can do once they put a good o-line in front of him...

 

[dtgold88]

I would assume that slightly above average means slightly above average for an NFL quarterback. An average NFL quarterback is pretty much a guy who can be a starter in the NFL.

So slightly above average would equal a quality franchise qb.

32 starters. slightly above average is 13-15. Of the 32 starters, I'd say maybe 20 teams think they have a worthy franchise QB (could be less)? So an average franchise QB is 10th best. quality would have to be at least 8th.

8 does not = 13-15

My 2 cents (OK..10 cents).