CJ

[scotsman1948]

LAA has scheduled a meeting with CJ and his agent on Monday. LAA is going hard after CJ and/or Kuroda. if they get one or both they get even stronger pitching wise while we get weaker

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

They still have to do something about that offense..................................

 

[guitarmy21b]

If they want to continue digging their financial grave I say let them. I think if you subtract CJ and add Nefty we're still better than them 1-5...and if you add a guy like Oswalt, Buehrle, or Darvish we're even better. And yes their offense still blows. Instead of finishing 10GB they finish 5GB. I'm too worried if he ends up there.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

I feel its a bad deal for the Rangers if the Angels end up with CJ. still would need to find another starting pitcher to replace CJ or add a Closer like Madson and move Feliz to the Rotation. Don't want to see CJ go to a Division Rival. Are the Angels really going to give in to the demands of his agent. Still would like to resign CJ if all possible.

 

[scotsman1948]

If they want to continue digging their financial grave I say let them. I think if you subtract CJ and add Nefty we're still better than them 1-5...and if you add a guy like Oswalt, Buehrle, or Darvish we're even better. And yes their offense still blows. Instead of finishing 10GB they finish 5GB. I'm too worried if he ends up there.

who on the Rangers is better than Weaver if we don't have CJ? If they sign CJ, who on the Rangers is better than him? Feliz has no experience as a starter in the majors, so you need to draw in your expectations a little. if we are reduced to starting Feliz i would think the upper range on wins would be 10 maybe 11.

 

[guitarmy21b]

who on the Rangers is better than Weaver if we don't have CJ? If they sign CJ, who on the Rangers is better than him? Feliz has no experience as a starter in the majors, so you need to draw in your expectations a little. if we are reduced to starting Feliz i would think the upper range on wins would be 10 maybe 11.

Nobody is better than Weaver on our team regardless, so there's that. I expect a huge season out of Dutch and is at this point in time better than CJ, he finished the season stronger and showed up in the WS. I think anyone on our staff can out-duel CJ head to head with our run support and their shitty offense. With his track record in big games he'd probably fold against us anyway. The only real advantage it gives them is CJ's projected wins vs other teams that would be a factor in the season records. As for Feliz, I think he gives the AL hell if he starts. He's got better stuff than Ogando and he has a change-up. But the bottom line is, although you may have objections to CJ going to LAA, do you overpay him just to keep him away from them? I don't think you do.

 

[scotsman1948]

Nobody is better than Weaver on our team regardless, so there's that. I expect a huge season out of Dutch and is at this point in time better than CJ, he finished the season stronger and showed up in the WS. I think anyone on our staff can out-duel CJ head to head with our run support and their shitty offense. With his track record in big games he'd probably fold against us anyway. The only real advantage it gives them is CJ's projected wins vs other teams that would be a factor in the season records. As for Feliz, I think he gives the AL hell if he starts. He's got better stuff than Ogando and he has a change-up. But the bottom line is, although you may have objections to CJ going to LAA, do you overpay him just to keep him away from them? I don't think you do.

what's your definition of overpay? and having never seen Feliz go more than 2 innings i am not as comfortable with him starting as you. then we'd have 2 starters who are going to fade late in the season because Ogando is not going to be fully ready and Feliz has never thrown more than 70 innings in a major league season.

 

[Ginger]

CJ going to the Angels would be bad news. He'd be their 3, maybe even their 4. They'd feast on all the weaker teams and be tough to beat out. Their offense is going to get better. Trout should be a beast next season and I hate that Trumbo kid.

 

[guitarmy21b]

what's your definition of overpay? and having never seen Feliz go more than 2 innings i am not as comfortable with him starting as you. then we'd have 2 starters who are going to fade late in the season because Ogando is not going to be fully ready and Feliz has never thrown more than 70 innings in a major league season.

I wouldn't give him anything more than 15 a year. According to JD, Nefty could maintain his velocity deep into games in the minors and use his change-up effectively. If you see him bring that pitch and a cutter into his arsenal he is going to beast. I think the problem with our guys fading was Wash overworking them...correct me if I'm wrong but aside from Scooter and Dave Bush each spot starting a couple times our 5 started every game and I'm pretty sure that was the highest percentage in the ML. Going into next season with a healthy Scooter and guys like Perez or Ramirez who might be ready to make a spot start every now and then, and I think we're able to keep our guys fresh much better than we did last year. I don't really blame Wash either, problem was injuries. Feldman and Hunter were hurt most of the season and we didn't have anybody else.

 

[scotsman1948]

I wouldn't give him anything more than 15 a year. According to JD, Nefty could maintain his velocity deep into games in the minors and use his change-up effectively. If you see him bring that pitch and a cutter into his arsenal he is going to beast. I think the problem with our guys fading was Wash overworking them...correct me if I'm wrong but aside from Scooter and Dave Bush each spot starting a couple times our 5 started every game and I'm pretty sure that was the highest percentage in the ML. Going into next season with a healthy Scooter and guys like Perez or Ramirez who might be ready to make a spot start every now and then, and I think we're able to keep our guys fresh much better than we did last year. I don't really blame Wash either, problem was injuries. Feldman and Hunter were hurt most of the season and we didn't have anybody else.

has JD ever seen Feliz pitch more than 2 innings in the majors? i know he has those pitches but he's never had to throw them for any period of time more than 2 innings

i would offer CJ 5 years 75-77.5M

 

[guitarmy21b]

has JD ever seen Feliz pitch more than 2 innings in the majors? i know he has those pitches but he's never had to throw them for any period of time more than 2 innings

i would offer CJ 5 years 75-77.5M

Well I understand your skepticism but you could've made the same argument towards Ogando and he pitched pretty damn well. Difference between Nefty and Ogey is Nefty has more than 2 pitches and Nefty's fastball and breaking ball are better than Ogey's anyway.

 

[jta4437]

Well I understand your skepticism but you could've made the same argument towards Ogando and he pitched pretty damn well. Difference between Nefty and Ogey is Nefty has more than 2 pitches and Nefty's fastball and breaking ball are better than Ogey's anyway.

Feliz's fastball is marginally better than Ogando's, and yes he throws a changeup on occasion, but Ogando's breaking pitch is far and a way better than Feliz's at this point

 

[scotsman1948]

Well I understand your skepticism but you could've made the same argument towards Ogando and he pitched pretty damn well. Difference between Nefty and Ogey is Nefty has more than 2 pitches and Nefty's fastball and breaking ball are better than Ogey's anyway.

Ogando wilted half way thru the season. thru his 1st 12 games he went 7-0 with an ERA of 2.10 but thru the next 19 he went 6-8 and his ERA ballooned to 3.51.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Feliz's fastball is marginally better than Ogando's, and yes he throws a changeup on occasion, but Ogando's breaking pitch is far and a way better than Feliz's at this point

It's hard to judge at this point because it's sometimes hard to establish a secondary pitch in one inning for a closer. I think if he starts and he has more time to work that pitch into a game, he could get as many strikeouts with it as Colby does with his slider.

 

[jta4437]

Even in 1-2 inning stints you can see Ogando's slider is much sharper than Feliz's curveball, Feliz's curveball is just too loopy for my liking, but it makes a good change of direction pitch

 

[jta4437]

Ogando wilted half way thru the season. thru his 1st 12 games he went 7-0 with an ERA of 2.10 but thru the next 19 he went 6-8 and his ERA ballooned to 3.51.

ballooned to 3.51? thats still a pretty good ERA, not like it was in the 5's

 

[scotsman1948]

It's hard to judge at this point because it's sometimes hard to establish a secondary pitch in one inning for a closer. I think if he starts and he has more time to work that pitch into a game, he could get as many strikeouts with it as Colby does with his slider.

big IF, are you willing to gamble that Feliz can give you 6 or 7 innings consistently? and if he can't what's your fall-back plan?

 

[scotsman1948]

ballooned to 3.51? thats still a pretty good ERA, not like it was in the 5's

actually for it to go from 2.10 after 12 games to 3.51 after an additional 19 games he was throwing an ERA of over 4.75 during those 19 games. that's ballooning

 

[guitarmy21b]

In Ogando's "horrible" second half he put up a 4.48 ERA(compared to Colby's season ERA of 4.40) and out played him at the end of the season. If Nefty can match those season numbers(which I think he can, and exceed. I think Ogando improves next year too) then I'm happy.

 

[jta4437]

actually for it to go from 2.10 after 12 games to 3.51 after an additional 19 games he was throwing an ERA of over 4.75 during those 19 games. that's ballooning

Ok thats better presentation