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Texas Rangers 2019-2020 Offseason Thread

DT LUNA

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Exactly this. MLB has been petty and vindictive toward Pete Rose for years because he bet on baseball and refused to admit to it. Say what you want about that guy, but he played his butt off every time he set foot on the diamond, and you will never convince me he ever did anything to mess with the “integrity” of the game. He broke the rules, and yeah he used inside knowledge to make extra money on the side. So he did deserve some punishment. But he never did anything which altered outcomes of games.

These guys did. What they did was WAY worse.
These guys are criminal. Much worse than Pete.
 

Nightcrawler

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Astros owner states dismissing Hinch and Luhnow gives them a clean slate???

Players get off scott free and who sent emails directing scouts to cheat- nothing. Current bench coach very suspect.

MLB could have done more. Rose bet and lifetime ban but this is worse

At least Jim Crane did the right thing and fired both of them.

better than luhnow and Hinch “ working behind the scenes” then coming back and continuing their cheating ways except they would try to cover it up better the 2nd time around.
 

WilltheThrill

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Yeah I'm not throwing stones until i know other teams don't get reeled in to a scandal

I think this point forward, teams are going to be snitching at any possible transgressions and documenting everything... hopefully nobody is stupid enough to cheat going forward
Oh, I am. I am ABSOLUTELY throwing stones. My opinion is that just because we don’t know for sure whether or not other teams have cheated doesn’t mean the Astros shouldn’t get anything but pure hatred and vitriol thrown their way. We DO know they cheated. Furthermore, their cheating was on a very large and very impactful scale. They didn’t bend the rules to sneak an international signing in by using fuzzy math. They didn’t fail to disclose a potential injury to a trade partner. They broke all sorts of rules, both written and unwritten, and cheated their way to countless hits and wins, resulting in a World Series title. They literally altered baseball history.

Once the Red Sox are tried and convicted by baseball’s “court”, then they will deserve the stones to be thrown at them, too. And yes, if the Rangers are outed as cheaters on this level at some point in the future, then they will deserve all the pummeling they have coming their way (including from their own fans like me).

I’m not naive enough to think that at some point during their history that every single MLB hasn’t at least bent the rules in some way or another. But to me, scale and severity of the cheating are important. And few teams (if any) have ever run this scale of cheating operation in MLB history... at least that we know about for sure. And that’s all we can go by- what is currently known.
 

WilltheThrill

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At least Jim Crane did the right thing and fired both of them.

better than luhnow and Hinch “ working behind the scenes” then coming back and continuing their cheating ways except they would try to cover it up better the 2nd time around.
Crane didn’t do the right thing. He did the right BUSINESS thing. Don’t forget, that Jim Crane was one of the guys who gave a press conference during the Taubman scandal and basically challenged the credibility of the female reporters. And Jim Crane has had MONTHS to “do the right thing” and fire those two scumbags. I’m not saying that he knew about the cheating at the time it was happening, because as far as I’ve read and heard, there isn’t proof of that. But he DEFINITELY knew they cheated once the story broke back in early
November. This wasn’t a case of “are they guilty or not?” The Astros even admitted it happened back in November. So crane knew for sure those two cheated back in November. If he was really concerned with morality, he would have fired them into the sun the moment their involvement was confirmed. But instead, he waited until MLB handed down their sentences to act. Once he saw that they were suspended and definitely branded as toxic (and basically unable to be “re-hired”), he did what any high level corporate exec or owner does when a scandal rocks a company- he threw his underlings under the bus to save the company and save face. It was purely a business decision, not a right or wrong one.
 

Kelleyman

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Yu with his 2 cents
 

WilltheThrill

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He pretty much started throwing everyone under the bus. See the true character of an individual in how they react to adversity.
The whole thing has been one massive tiered under-the-bus throwing game of pass the buck.

At the top: Jim Crane says he knew nothing at all and that it was Luhnow and Hinch’s fault.

Next level down: Jeff Luhnow says he knew “nothing” but should have been more on top of the fact that his manager, coaches, players, and “low level employees” were all cheating.

Next level down: AJ Hinch says he knew there was cheating going on, but he says he didn’t actively take part in it (just didn’t stop it). Just his bench coaches and players did the cheating.

I’m waiting for the “low level employees” to come out now and say they did the cheating, but they were blackmailed into it by the popcorn vendors. And then the popcorn vendors will say it was the janitor’s idea.
 

WilltheThrill

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One thing I find hilarious in all of this is AJ Hinch saying that he “didn’t take part in the cheating” but just didn’t stop it.

He stood there in the dugout all season long while a guy wearing an earpiece beat the hell out of a trashcan less than 5 feet away from him before every off-speed/breaking pitch, and he actually has the balls to say he didn’t participate in the cheating. Hahaha!!

“Well, I never actually picked up a bat and hit the trash can myself, so I’m pretty much an innocent bystander in all of this...”

He is stretching plausible deniability to its limits and then some.
 

Kelleyman

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One thing I find hilarious in all of this is AJ Hinch saying that he “didn’t take part in the cheating” but just didn’t stop it.

He stood there in the dugout all season long while a guy wearing an earpiece beat the hell out of a trashcan less than 5 feet away from him before every off-speed/breaking pitch, and he actually has the balls to say he didn’t participate in the cheating. Hahaha!!

“Well, I never actually picked up a bat and hit the trash can myself, so I’m pretty much an innocent bystander in all of this...”

He is stretching plausible deniability to its limits and then some.
I am certain there is plenty of rationalization going on. "We had to do it because everyone else is."

Side note: one reason I was hoping the Astros would be made an example of is the pervasive blood thirsting dehumanizing culture. Any means to an end. Putting a AAA club, walking papers to scouts etc. I think their metrics are fine but their moves paved the way for dysfunctional revenue sharing that has made the game worse
 

WilltheThrill

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I am certain there is plenty of rationalization going on. "We had to do it because everyone else is."

Side note: one reason I was hoping the Astros would be made an example of is the pervasive blood thirsting dehumanizing culture. Any means to an end. Putting a AAA club, walking papers to scouts etc. I think their metrics are fine but their moves paved the way for dysfunctional revenue sharing that has made the game worse
Yep. 100%.

I could even understand if you were a player or employee of the Astros during that period who knew about the cheating but, because of fear of repercussions or feeling like you couldn’t stop it, you kept quiet. But if that was you, then all you had to say when asked about it by the media was “I’m not going to talk about that”.

But that’s not what so many within that organization did. Instead, they followed the Astros method of slandering the accuser when you’re caught. It’s the Ryan Braun playbook of trying to ruin other innocent and honest peoples’ lives to save your own guilty skin. And I think that’s what makes their whole scandal even worse. They were willing not only to lie about their own guilt, but also to vilify and trash others who were telling the truth.
 

Nightcrawler

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Crane didn’t do the right thing. He did the right BUSINESS thing. Don’t forget, that Jim Crane was one of the guys who gave a press conference during the Taubman scandal and basically challenged the credibility of the female reporters. And Jim Crane has had MONTHS to “do the right thing” and fire those two scumbags. I’m not saying that he knew about the cheating at the time it was happening, because as far as I’ve read and heard, there isn’t proof of that. But he DEFINITELY knew they cheated once the story broke back in early
November. This wasn’t a case of “are they guilty or not?” The Astros even admitted it happened back in November. So crane knew for sure those two cheated back in November. If he was really concerned with morality, he would have fired them into the sun the moment their involvement was confirmed. But instead, he waited until MLB handed down their sentences to act. Once he saw that they were suspended and definitely branded as toxic (and basically unable to be “re-hired”), he did what any high level corporate exec or owner does when a scandal rocks a company- he threw his underlings under the bus to save the company and save face. It was purely a business decision, not a right or wrong one.

obviously you’re more tuned in to this than me and following it much more closely, but there is a huge part of the Astros fan base who is disappointed that luhnow is gone.

they think he’s some kind of baseball wizard ( he’s not) and the best GM ever.


Either way tho, good day for the rangers. We have a chance to catch a team who got ahead by blatantly tanking, then blatantly cheating.

I’m glad the fat ass Ryan family is gone from their organization too. I hated seeing nolan with them.
 

Bmurph

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I think Odor must have had something to do with the Astros stealing signs, so let's bash him for that too. Seems nobody has beaten him up today
 

Nightcrawler

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When are we signing castellanos?

we need him to fortify / back up/ platoon 1st base. We also need someone ready just in case Guzman shits the bed again.
 

jta4437

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When are we signing castellanos?

we need him to fortify / back up/ platoon 1st base. We also need someone ready just in case Guzman shits the bed again.

Castellanos would be nice, but I don't think he's going to sign on for uncertainty, especially if someone is offering him a full on starting gig somewhere, but I'd also be ok with him starting most days at 1B if thats what they decided and keep Heineman on the bench, and let Guzman work on his game at AAA and play everyday
 

WastinSomeTime

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Castellanos would be nice, but I don't think he's going to sign on for uncertainty, especially if someone is offering him a full on starting gig somewhere, but I'd also be ok with him starting most days at 1B if thats what they decided and keep Heineman on the bench, and let Guzman work on his game at AAA and play everyday
Better way of putting it. I like Castellanos bat but Guzman's glove. Problem with Guzman is he has hit well in the minors. He is a tough call because of his unknown ability to figure it out at the MLB level. He seemed to start figuring it out towards the end as in the last month he hit 305 with an OPS of 863.
 

saddles

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Better way of putting it. I like Castellanos bat but Guzman's glove. Problem with Guzman is he has hit well in the minors. He is a tough call because of his unknown ability to figure it out at the MLB level. He seemed to start figuring it out towards the end as in the last month he hit 305 with an OPS of 863.
Sometimes management puts a lot of stock in September performances and sometimes they don't.
 

saddles

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WastinSomeTime

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Sometimes management puts a lot of stock in September performances and sometimes they don't.
Not sure what that means but I was just throwing out some facts to show this could be a tough call. He may keep doing well in the minors but does it translate to the MLB level.
 

WastinSomeTime

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One thing we have to remember about Odor he had a high ceiling in the minors. He led the league in doubles at Myrtle Beach. Was called up to Frisco and tore it up like nobodies business. Then in his 1st 3 years his stats improved each year with defense being his biggest issue. I think that 3rd year ruined him. The guy hit .271 with 33 doubles and 33 HRs. But he is not an intelligent ballplayer and I feel he fell in love with the HR ball and that has been his demise. If he would get back to the doubles machine he was then the HRs would come. He tanked in 2017 and bounced back in 2018 with a better overall average and finished 4th among 2b in the majors defensively. He hit over 600 against Cleveland, over 350 against Boston and did well against the Jays, Twins and Angels. Then he tanked again last year. Until Solak came on the scene they had no real alternative in replacing Odor. Once Solak came aboard I was all for him taking over 2b. But I am just stating this because at one time people really liked what Odor was doing and while I am all for Solak replacing him even though he too is weak defensively odor has not always been a pile of crap like some make him out to be. Does he irritate the daylights out of me. Of course. He hits .274 with RISP and .421 with men of 3rd and less than 2 outs but can't hit his weight the rest of the time in 2019. While I am with you guys for the most part on Odor just wanted to lay out some facts. Because we talk about guys now in the minors who we think will automatically take over in the majors but you never know if they will go the way of an Odor or a Michael Young.
 
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