tOfficial 2018 Recruiting Thread

[ericd7633]

Brady Hoke definitely didn't leave the cupboard bare for him, that's for sure. The 4th/5th year talent talent was unquestionable.

Sure, but Urban unquestionably had more talent when he took over than what Harbaugh did when he took over.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Being a former first round draft pick means literally nothing. Are you saying that instantly turns you into an elite talent scout and coach?

He was a great NFL coach, sure. We've been over this. That's far from being an instant success in the college ranks. Saban and Spurrier were elite coaches in college who sent tons of highly productive players to the pros, and they sucked as NFL coaches. Charlie Weiss was thought of as one of the best offensive minds in the NFL while he was there. Then he came to college and, well, you know. There are plenty of other examples of coaches who sucked in the NFL but churned out plenty of studs who had great careers, and there are examples of guys who were highly-regarded in the pros and failed in college. These things aren't guarantees for Harbaugh. Urban, however, has demonstrated without a doubt that he knows how to get productive guys to the pros.

Harbaugh has lived their dream already. Who is going to know more about what it takes to get to the NFL and what NFL coaches expect of you than someone who has done it as a player AND a coach.

 

[Across The Field]

Sure, but Urban unquestionably had more talent when he took over than what Harbaugh did when he took over.

Haha, that's not really based on anything but your opinion, but whatever you say.

 

[Across The Field]

Harbaugh has lived their dream already. Who is going to know more about what it takes to get to the NFL and what NFL coaches expect of you than someone who has done it as a player AND a coach.

Someone who has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to put volumes of kids into the pros with success.

 

[ericd7633]

Haha, that's not really based on anything but your opinion, but whatever you say.

Or based on the fact Ohio State had on average better recruiting classes before both coaches started at their respective programs.

 

[Across The Field]

Or based on the fact Ohio State had on average better recruiting classes before both coaches started at their respective programs.

Ohio State:
2010: 15th
2011: 6th
avg: 10.5

michigan:
2013: 4th
2014: 20th
avg: 12

You're doing an extreme job of splitting hairs here. Plus, Urban did a little housecleaning when he arrived with some of the guys who weren't meeting program standards.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Sure, but Urban unquestionably had more talent when he took over than what Harbaugh did when he took over.

It was pretty close if you go by recruiting rankings, you could fairly claim even. Neither had anywhere near a bare cupboard.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Someone who has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to put volumes of kids into the pros with success.

So you think Urban Meyer knows more about what it takes to get to the NFL and what NFL coaches expect from players than Harbaugh?

Think about that for a second. How many NFL locker rooms has Meyer been in? How many NFL draft rooms has he been in? How many combines has he evaluated and interviewed players?

Has he put more players into the NFL? Absolutely. He has also coached many more years. The experience he doesn't have is at the level where these players want to get to.

 

[ericd7633]

Ohio State:
2010: 15th
2011: 6th
avg: 10.5

michigan:
2013: 4th
2014: 20th
avg: 12

You're doing an extreme job of splitting hairs here. Plus, Urban did a little housecleaning when he arrived with some of the guys who weren't meeting program standards.

Urban was also able to have a full recruiting cycle in his first year. But my point being Ohio State had more talent, which you just proved.

 

[ericd7633]

It was pretty close if you go by recruiting rankings, you could fairly claim even. Neither had anywhere near a bare cupboard.

Right. Agreed. I guess @Across The Field had a problem with the fact that Harbaugh put as many guys into the NFL in his first 2 years that Urban did in his first 3 years. And while I agree the cupboard wasn't bare, it wasn't like it was at Ohio State either.

 

[Across The Field]

So you think Urban Meyer knows more about what it takes to get to the NFL and what NFL coaches expect from players than Harbaugh?

Think about that for a second. How many NFL locker rooms has Meyer been in? How many NFL draft rooms has he been in? How many combines has he evaluated and interviewed players?

Has he put more players into the NFL? Absolutely. He has also coached many more years. The experience he doesn't have is at the level where these players want to get to.

And as I've mentioned, being at the next level is hardly a guarantee of success in the college ranks. Think of it this way: Harbaugh was at Stanford for 4 years. What guys did he put in the pros that are succeeding? Andrew Luck was a generational talent who would've been the #1 pick no matter where he went, and he seems to be the only one who's really doing anything from 4 years of coaching and 4 years of recruiting. What am I missing?

 

[Across The Field]

Urban was also able to have a full recruiting cycle in his first year. But my point being Ohio State had more talent, which you just proved.

Yeah I didn't prove that, unless you're one of those of the belief that recruiting stars are a 100% unquestionably scientific measure of talent.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Right. Agreed. I guess @Across The Field had a problem with the fact that Harbaugh put as many guys into the NFL in his first 2 years that Urban did in his first 3 years. And while I agree the cupboard wasn't bare, it wasn't like it was at Ohio State either.

The average recruiting class rankings the 2 years before they were there is 2 spots apart. You really think that's some sort of astronomical difference? It's basically even.

 

[Across The Field]

Right. Agreed. I guess @Across The Field had a problem with the fact that Harbaugh put as many guys into the NFL in his first 2 years that Urban did in his first 3 years. And while I agree the cupboard wasn't bare, it wasn't like it was at Ohio State either.

I guess if you're suddenly interested in pumping up 3rd day picks, have at it.

Clearly Urban has shown he knows how to get his own players drafted in droves, and highly at that. Let me know when Harbaugh has 5 guys taken in the first in the same year, or 8 in the first over 2 years.

 

[ericd7633]

Yeah I didn't prove that, unless you're one of those of the belief that recruiting stars are a 100% unquestionably scientific measure of talent.

I was just assuming that's what you were doing? Because before Harbaugh got there all those guys either sucked/under performed/didn't play.

 

[ericd7633]

The average recruiting class rankings the 2 years before they were there is 2 spots apart. You really think that's some sort of astronomical difference? It's basically even.

When I said unquestionably I was factoring in the 2009 OSU class which was 4th and how Urban was able to recruit a full deck in 2012 and land a top 5 class. Harbaugh didn't have that luxury in his first year, 2015 and had to settle for the 37th ranked class due to numbers. Just looking at those 2 years specifically, it wasn't all that big.

 

[ericd7633]

I guess if you're suddenly interested in pumping up 3rd day picks, have at it.

Clearly Urban has shown he knows how to get his own players drafted in droves, and highly at that. Let me know when Harbaugh has 5 guys taken in the first in the same year, or 8 in the first over 2 years.

When Harbaugh is in his 5th and 6th seasons, I'm sure he'll be putting guys into the NFL at a high rate. I never doubted Urban has created a factory of getting guys to the NFL. You just seem hell bent on diminishing what Harbaugh has done at Michigan thus far. But I get it.

 

[osubuckeye89]

When I said unquestionably I was factoring in the 2009 OSU class which was 4th and how Urban was able to recruit a full deck in 2012 and land a top 5 class. Harbaugh didn't have that luxury in his first year, 2015 and had to settle for the 37th ranked class due to numbers. Just looking at those 2 years specifically, it wasn't all that big.

Ok look at the 2009 class though

Dorian Bell (20 Overall/2 LB) Transfered to Pitt after the 2010 season

Jamal Berry (35 overall/4 RB) Transfered to Murray State after the 2011 season

Melvin Fellows (97 overall/6 DE) Had to retire due to medical reasons after the 2011 season

Duron Carter (83 overall/8 WR) booted due to off the field issues after the 2009 season

Jamie Wood (78 overall/7 S) basically never played in 2012 and quit football mid season due to injury issues

The top 5 guys in that class never even took the field for Meyer.............

along with 2 other 4 stars (CB Dominic Clarke and WR James Jackson) also were off the team when Meyer came around.

 

[Across The Field]

I was just assuming that's what you were doing? Because before Harbaugh got there all those guys either sucked/under performed/didn't play.

They were poorly coached. That's not a secret. Hoke was a great recruiter but a horrible in-game coach. There's a reason he's a DL coach now.

 

[Across The Field]

When Harbaugh is in his 5th and 6th seasons, I'm sure he'll be putting guys into the NFL at a high rate. I never doubted Urban has created a factory of getting guys to the NFL. You just seem hell bent on diminishing what Harbaugh has done at Michigan thus far. But I get it.

Not even a little bit. My original point was, right now, there's no reason a RB would want to play for michigan over Ohio State. I've supported my case pretty thoroughly. If you have anything that would suggest I'm wrong, I'm all ears.