Why has ND not lived up to its recruiting?

[Lillyliverd]

It looks like we are on our way to another great recruiting class; great news, and I appreciate all the information Purguy and Poe have posted regarding the recruiting process.

However, I am skeptical that ND's recruiting success will be an indicator of ND's team success.

The following numbers are the average final ranking and recruiting class ranking for the last 4 years for ND, Stanford, and Oregon.

ND Average final ranking: 24.5 Average recruiting class ranking: 8.25
Stanford 4.5 20
Oregon 7.25 25.5

When I see these numbers, I have to believe that ND has underachieved as a team relative to their talent. The four years prior to BK's arrival at ND, our average recruiting class was ranked 9th. We have had great recruiting for nearly a decade and one great season to show for it.

 

[NDHoosier101]

Weis was terrible at developing players and during Kelly's era we've had issues with keeping our top recruits, we certainly wouldn't be ranked as highly if they knew we were going to lose our top recruits every season before they saw a single down.....

 

[purguy12]

Yes NDs main concern has been losing Top recruits after 1 season or before the season starts.


Overall I think ND is right where they want to be. Went to a NC game last year and this year would of been a 10-2 or 11-1 team with Golson as QB. This year I expect Playoffs. 11-1 or 10-2 at worst.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I agree with Pur

I think ND is actually on the up swing.

We get mad at Kelly, me included, but you can see the progress he's made. He gets far more out of his players than Charlie did.

 

[whywork2]

You can say what ever you like but I been saying this for some time. Year after year Wisconsin gets out recruited by Notre Dame and over the last ten years most of the time Wisconsin has had the better team at the end of the season. Now I know there have been exceptions, last year especially but to be quite honest it's just the truth , a number of schools have developed and coached their talent much better. Thats a fact not an opinion. Year after year Notre Dame has had some really high rated recruiting and even though they have lost some players they still ended up with nice classes. Time to put up or shut up , they have to do a better job. Tell me I'm wrong , I dare you.

 

[poewelch84]

It looks like we are on our way to another great recruiting class; great news, and I appreciate all the information Purguy and Poe have posted regarding the recruiting process.

However, I am skeptical that ND's recruiting success will be an indicator of ND's team success.

The following numbers are the average final ranking and recruiting class ranking for the last 4 years for ND, Stanford, and Oregon.

ND Average final ranking: 24.5 Average recruiting class ranking: 8.25
Stanford 4.5 20
Oregon 7.25 25.5

When I see these numbers, I have to believe that ND has underachieved as a team relative to their talent. The four years prior to BK's arrival at ND, our average recruiting class was ranked 9th. We have had great recruiting for nearly a decade and one great season to show for it.

Class rankings are completely subjective but all of those teams have been ranked in the top 25 in recruiting classes or nearly. This season will be the first time since the early 90's that Notre Dame will have had 3 straight seasons with at least one first round pick. Also they'll likely have as many or more 1st rounders drafted this year since 1993 I believe. They are also likely to have their highest number of players drafted this year since the Holtz era so over all I would say just based on the number of guys getting drafted and ending up in the NFL they are starting to do better. They are getting to the point where the recruiting is starting to match the on field performance. Sure they lose some guy's to transfer but every program does when you are bringing in high talented players every year some are going to look for an easier road.

 

[poewelch84]

You can say what ever you like but I been saying this for some time. Year after year Wisconsin gets out recruited by Notre Dame and over the last ten years most of the time Wisconsin has had the better team at the end of the season. Now I know there have been exceptions, last year especially but to be quite honest it's just the truth , a number of schools have developed and coached their talent much better. Thats a fact not an opinion. Year after year Notre Dame has had some really high rated recruiting and even though they have lost some players they still ended up with nice classes. Time to put up or shut up , they have to do a better job. Tell me I'm wrong , I dare you.

I would say this years team was better than Wisconsin too.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I wouldn't say Wisconsin has had better teams.

Wisconsin plays a far inferior schedule to ours.

 

[whywork2]

I would say this years team was better than Wisconsin too.[/quote
Wisconsin was ranked higher the entire season. They played a poor game and still almost beat South Carolina. They were in a real bowl game. Not a fictitious one like we were. Last year was the first year in a long time I thought they had a better team. I stick to that no matter what. Not just rankings but the eye test. I'm a lifelong Notre Dame fan but Shirley you can't be serious.

 

[whywork2]

I am talking actual rankings at the end of the season. Like I said last year undoubtedly Notre Dame was better but Wisconsin has had better teams and have been ranked higher more at the end of the season. I am not talking about this year or this years schedule. Just the facts mam.

 

[whywork2]

I did a check on the final ranking. I did it in a hurry so don't freak if I made a mistake...
2005- Notre Dame ended up 9th and Wisconsin 15th
2006 Notre Dame ended up 17th and Wisconsin 7th
2007 Notre Dame ended not ranked and Wisconsin 24th
2008 Notre Dame ended up not ranked and Wisconsin ended not ranked
2009 Notre Dame ended up not ranked and Wisconsin 16th
2010 Notre Dame ended up not ranked and Wisconsin 7th
2011 Notre Dame ended not ranked and Wisconsin 10th
2012 Notre Dame ended up 4th and Wisconsin not ranked
2013 Notre Dame enede up 20th and Wisconin 22.
So in the last NINE years only THREE of those years did Notre Dame end up ranked higher. Believe me I am Notre Dame thru and thru but those are the facts. My entire point is I AGREE with the original post that player development and all around coaching has not been where it should . Year in and year out Notre Dame out recruits Wisconsin. I honestly don't remember the last time Wisconsin's recruiting class was ranked higher than Notre Dame. Not trying to piss my fellow fans off, merely making a point.

 

[Lillyliverd]

I get it that ND has lost players that would have reduced the rankings after the fact. I'm sure it happens to other teams as well. But I look at teams like Michigan State, South Carolina, Missouri, UCF (all top ten) and I know even with recruit departures, ND had a much greater talent pool. This will be BK's 5th season and I will be disappointed with anything worse than 10-2. Even with the departures, we should have the talent to win 10 games. I can handle losing to FSU and maybe one other game and that's it. No excuses after 5 years.

 

[whywork2]

I agree with you Lillyliverd. I give them a mulligan this season do to the quarterback situation this last year. And I wholeheartedly agree that our final recruiting hasn't been stellar losing out on Greenberry, Shepard, Kiel eventually, Neal, Vanderdoes and Lynch just to name a few. But in the end we have still had some nice classes. I still like Kelly but see things for what they truly are. The time is now.. meaning this coming season. All good teams lose good players. After a handful of years it can no longer be used as an excuse to say ah hell were losing Niklas or Tuitt and whom ever. We can no longer have to have a season where we have to rely on a Tommy Rees because we have no depth. Shit like that just has to stop.

 

[NDKane21]

Wait til these big ole' road graders from this and last year's class become upper classmen. That plus a highly skilled QB...whichever one wins the spot after EG is done (Barnett my hopes).

ND is going to be just fine.

 

[poewelch84]

I would say this years team was better than Wisconsin too.[/quote
Wisconsin was ranked higher the entire season. They played a poor game and still almost beat South Carolina. They were in a real bowl game. Not a fictitious one like we were. Last year was the first year in a long time I thought they had a better team. I stick to that no matter what. Not just rankings but the eye test. I'm a lifelong Notre Dame fan but Shirley you can't be serious.

Well who did Wisconsin play and who did Notre Dame play, Notre Dame's schedule was tougher than Wisconsin's also the bowl deal is what it is Notre Dame doesn't have tie ins like the Big Ten does. Also how did Wisconsin do against Arizona State? I'm pretty sure Notre Dame beat them, I'm also pretty sure Notre Dame beat Wisconsin's conference champs. At the end of the day last years team would have beaten Wisconsin if they had played. I know UMass are a powerhouse as well as Tennessee Tech.

 

[poewelch84]

I agree that Wisconsin over the past decade have typically had better teams but the past two years I don't believe that is the case. In one Notre Dame is ranked higher and the other Wisconsin.

 

[NDKane21]

Who is Wisconsin? CFL? Do they have a National Champion, let alone 11? We don't even play them.

 

[whywork2]

Who is Wisconsin? CFL? Do they have a National Champion, let alone 11? We don't even play them.

Completely missing my freaking point.Not talking about the last thirty of forty years. Talking about the last 10 to fifteen. Read my chart, only three of the last nine years has Notre Dame finished higher in the final rankings than Wisconsin and I am willing to bet Notre Dame's recruiting class was ranked higher ever single year. Nobody in hell is talking about Notre Dame's greatness or history. That is not my point. I simple agree with Lillyliverd that player development had sucked or not been near what it should be. I am not comparing Notre Dame's storied history with Wisconsin , I am talking the last 20 years or so. I am as big a Notre Dame fan as anyone, I agree with the original post.

To this day it still pisses me off that the Badgers got Alvarez- a Notre Dame guy and we got Bob freaking Davie.

On a brighter side I do agree that of late were are starting to put a lot my players into the NFL which does show improvement. I am not being negative, It's just hard for me to understand how this has happened.

 

[whywork2]

Like Lillyliverd used Oregon and Stanford as examples I simply used Wisconsin because I have been more than familiar with how they have done. My post , like his was about Notre Dame though and about their coaching and player development. Believe me I want to see them get it right. Hope my father lives long enough to see them win it all, that would really mean something to me. I am sure some of you feel the same way.

 

[NDKane21]

Completely missing my freaking point.Not talking about the last thirty of forty years. Talking about the last 10 to fifteen. Read my chart, only three of the last nine years has Notre Dame finished higher in the final rankings than Wisconsin and I am willing to bet Notre Dame's recruiting class was ranked higher ever single year. Nobody in hell is talking about Notre Dame's greatness or history. That is not my point. I simple agree with Lillyliverd that player development had sucked or not been near what it should be. I am not comparing Notre Dame's storied history with Wisconsin , I am talking the last 20 years or so. I am as big a Notre Dame fan as anyone, I agree with the original post.

To this day it still pisses me off that the Badgers got Alvarez- a Notre Dame guy and we got Bob freaking Davie.

On a brighter side I do agree that of late were are starting to put a lot my players into the NFL which does show improvement. I am not being negative, It's just hard for me to understand how this has happened.

I read half then stopped. My question was...who is Wisconsin? Can't even win the Rose Bowl.