Wellington Castilla C from cubs traded to M's for Medina

[wazzu31]

I don't know, if that Cubs fan likes him I can't see anthing negative about giving him 2 games a week. If Jack was actually serious about that scholarship remark (which so far doesn't seem to be) Zunino needs to step up and at least get productive outs.

 

[unlvmariners]

I don't think he got shafted at all. He never should have been in the majorrs to begin with. He never did anything remotely worthly in the minors of being promoted to the majors. He was promoted by default because the Mariners catching corps has sucked so bad the last three years.

This is his career OPS at each level:
High A - .635
AA - .618
AAA - .664
Majors (109 plate appearances) - .406

Castillo's major league career OPS (.717) is about 50 points higher than Sucre's minor league career OPS.

Those are all offensive numbers kinda a big duh there LOL. I said Castillo's bat is better. Not sure what your point is? My view from watching both of them behind the plate is that Sucre is a better catcher. My view from watching them both hit is that Castillo is a better hitter. So in my view I disagree with you that Sucre did nothing in the minors to be in the Major leagues. I believe he is a very good defensive catcher and have no problem with him being on a Major League team. So as I said, That is my first take on the trade don't love it and I don't hate it. My mind may change depending on how Castillo is used and how he performs.

 

[cezero]

Zunino's on pace for 20+ home runs again. Rare for catchers, even seasoned ones with way more than 1100 career professional at bats like he has.

High K's in exchange for power like that for what is traditionally the weakest offensive position in the AL is something I can live.

If Zunino doesn't get better in the next 100 AB's or so, and Castillo gets in there and starts playing more than a traditional backup catcher, then that's cool. I understand the decision. I just can't imagine it would make much of a difference as far as helping the team goes, overall.

I'd bet money on the fact that Zunino will remain a top-tier catcher defensively for many years, and above average offensively, for a catcher, by the time he gets over 2000 pro at bats. I'm just a lot more patient when it comes to catcher than any other position, I guess.

 

[unlvmariners]

Zunino's on pace for 20+ home runs again. Rare for catchers, even seasoned ones with way more than 1100 career professional at bats like he has.

High K's in exchange for power like that for what is traditionally the weakest offensive position in the AL is something I can live.

If Zunino doesn't get better in the next 100 AB's or so, and Castillo gets in there and starts playing more than a traditional backup catcher, then that's cool. I understand the decision. I just can't imagine it would make much of a difference as far as helping the team goes, overall.

I'd bet money on the fact that Zunino will remain a top-tier catcher defensively for many years, and above average offensively, for a catcher, by the time he gets over 2000 pro at bats. I'm just a lot more patient when it comes to catcher than any other position, I guess.

Agreed!!!

 

[NWinAZ]

Zunino's on pace for 20+ home runs again. Rare for catchers, even seasoned ones with way more than 1100 career professional at bats like he has.

High K's in exchange for power like that for what is traditionally the weakest offensive position in the AL is something I can live.

This is where we disagree. Trade 20 homers for 200 K's? If he gets 500 AB"s, this means he gives up 40% of his AB's for 4% of over valued stats (homers). Of which how many are solo? I would give up 20 homers for more contact and spread the production over more games. How many of those 200 K's could have been ground outs or fly outs moving a runner over or in?

I don't know if there is a stat base out there that calculates plus and minuses using 'good outs' in the equation and taking away points for K's that are empty AB's.

 

[blstoker]

This is where we disagree. Trade 20 homers for 200 K's? If he gets 500 AB"s, this means he gives up 40% of his AB's for 4% of over valued stats (homers). Of which how many are solo? I would give up 20 homers for more contact and spread the production over more games. How many of those 200 K's could have been ground outs or fly outs moving a runner over or in?

I don't know if there is a stat base out there that calculates plus and minuses using 'good outs' in the equation and taking away points for K's that are empty AB's.

So, Mike Zunino is Dan Wilson behind the plate and Dave Valle at it

 

[cezero]

ok

 

[NWinAZ]

So, Mike Zunino is Dan Wilson behind the plate and Dave Valle at it

I marked it funny, but it is sadly true after thinking about it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Zunino's on pace for 20+ home runs again. Rare for catchers, even seasoned ones with way more than 1100 career professional at bats like he has.

High K's in exchange for power like that for what is traditionally the weakest offensive position in the AL is something I can live.

If Zunino doesn't get better in the next 100 AB's or so, and Castillo gets in there and starts playing more than a traditional backup catcher, then that's cool. I understand the decision. I just can't imagine it would make much of a difference as far as helping the team goes, overall.

I'd bet money on the fact that Zunino will remain a top-tier catcher defensively for many years, and above average offensively, for a catcher, by the time he gets over 2000 pro at bats. I'm just a lot more patient when it comes to catcher than any other position, I guess.

Not disagreeing that he will improve, but so far he is only regressing. His power has remained, but he's striking out even more now than he was last year with a lower average. He hasn't been showing improvement at the plate.

I hate to use the word potential when it comes to the Mariners, but I do believe Zunino could be an amazing player if he made contract more frequently. The guy has monster strength and if he put the bat on the ball more frequently, I don't doubt he could hit 30 in a season, but he just strikes out too much.

 

[gowazzu02]

Zunino is yet another Jack Z offensive prospect that literally can't hit the ball..... The list is long and growing. The fact that Jack Z fucked up the number 2 pick with Ackley and the (wasn't it) number 3 pick with Zunino is mind boggling.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Zunino is yet another Jack Z offensive prospect that literally can't hit the ball..... The list is long and growing. The fact that Jack Z fucked up the number 2 pick with Ackley and the (wasn't it) number 3 pick with Zunino is mind boggling.

It's hard to criticize the draft selection. If you look at the other players selected around Zunino, none of them are really doing anything or making any waves. Zunino was the right selection at the time and I still have hope for him. Hitting 20 HRs in the amount of games he played with the limited experience he has is pretty impressive. It's even more impressive considering how infrequently he makes contact. He is one of the best pitch framers in the game and that is a huge benefit to the Mariners, he hasn't been improving offensively, but there is hope that he can.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I mean shit, if you're gonna criticize a draft pick made by Z, go after Hultzen. None of us liked the pick when he made it because he didn't have a very high ceiling. The logic was that Hultzen at worst would be a Jarrod Washburn type. At best, a solid #2. Now look where he is.

 

[seahawksfan234]

We all wanted (or at least I did) Anthony Rendon, and that's who I thought the Mariners would select.

 

[wazzu31]

You can't blame the organization for drafting Zunino or Ackley, but you can blame them for not having any people in the organization to develop these guys. The fact that Zunino is striking out more just proves Jack needs be gone since it is on him that they have one of the worst developmental systems in all of sports. Lloyd also has to take some blame for those two's struggles IMO.

 

[DHoey]

wow

It at least gives you the option.

 

[Anointed One]

I like this move even though Zunino will remain our starter for the time being... What I like about it is that he can PH for Zunino 7-9th innings in a tight game... Couldn't do that with Sacre because he wasn't any better than Zunino...

 

[Anointed One]

You can't blame the organization for drafting Zunino or Ackley, but you can blame them for not having any people in the organization to develop these guys. The fact that Zunino is striking out more just proves Jack needs be gone since it is on him that they have one of the worst developmental systems in all of sports. Lloyd also has to take some blame for those two's struggles IMO.

Exactly... Hard to rip on the picks at the time but this org lacks the ability to develop young guys... Walker, Ackley, Zunino, etc... It's ridiculous... I was happy with the Zunino pick...

 

[NWinAZ]

Which leads to the question that did M's scout right on Ackley but develop wrong? And did did Angels scout right on Trout and develop right?

The devils-advocate in me believes that developing isn't as important as getting the right guy in the first place that will grow through the maturing process. My case is that what different developing did Seager get vs what Ackley got? Ackly went from an 'A' to a 'D' while Seager went from a 'C' to an 'A' in the same time period with the same organization.

My second issue with this is that I don't see a lot of ex-M's who had top-prospect labels on them but flamed out in the majors but then go somewhere else and then become the guy M's thought they were suppose to be all along.

That's just me thinking out loud.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I don't remember disliking the Ackley or Zunino picks at the time. I definitely remember disliking the Hultzen one. Bottom line is those were the three picks that were supposed to be the corner stones in this rebuild. Ones a bust, one may never make it because of injuries and the other was rushed and may have developed permanent bad habits at the plate. Regardless of whether they were the guys or not properly developed the results are unacceptable.

 

[unlvmariners]

Which leads to the question that did M's scout right on Ackley but develop wrong? And did did Angels scout right on Trout and develop right?

The devils-advocate in me believes that developing isn't as important as getting the right guy in the first place that will grow through the maturing process. My case is that what different developing did Seager get vs what Ackley got? Ackly went from an 'A' to a 'D' while Seager went from a 'C' to an 'A' in the same time period with the same organization.

My second issue with this is that I don't see a lot of ex-M's who had top-prospect labels on them but flamed out in the majors but then go somewhere else and then become the guy M's thought they were suppose to be all along.

That's just me thinking out loud.

This scout wrong or develop wrong question will make you go in circles. I think its a mixture of everything and some of the blame needs to be put on the prospect also. I think the most important things in scouting and the most difficult is being able to project what a player will become. One of the most difficult things to do in developing a player is finding a way to build that player in the best possible way to maximize their potential. I think Seattle is really bad at both projecting potential and developing a player in way that is best for suited for the players skills. As a result Seattle doesn't produce complete players, they produce and play players with holes in their games. And if they fail they get second, third, fourth , fifth chances to prove themselves.