We'll see if the Cavs are really improved or not tonight

[WiggyRuss]

According to your logic then nobodies skill set is unique or specisl because every playet can do almost every aspect of the game

I mean lin can hit threes so ray allen is not unique in his 3 point shooting...rofl

Exactly! Thanks Leking.

to summarize what you are saying I think...

Lin can shoot a three. Allen can shoot a 3 as well. Only one has done it on a consistently elite level and we know which one that is.


why i dug up those stats was to demonstrate that Kyrie is an elite shooter. - and when you compare him over the years to his contemporaries- the stats bear that out.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Why are we talking about medicore players like Lin? lol

very good question.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Derek Rose is a pretty awful outside shooter- the stats bear that out- and its why he doesnt shoot a lot of threes. Wall is a subpar outside shooter. The guy is a helluva player- but he doesnt shoot many threes nor should he. Passing wise and defense wise he def has Kyrie beat at this point in their careers. Tony Parker takes barely over 1 three a game because its simply not his shot and if he took 4-5 a game he would not be efficient at it- all these guys can take it to the rim at an elite level.

Kyle Korver can shoot the hell out of the ball. He couldnt take it to the rim to save his life. Mike Miller always has one of the best 3 pt percentages in the league- he couldnt take 3 dribbles if the game depended on it. JJ redick can rain from outside- finishing at the rim is not exactly his forte

Few guys can do both.

Even fewer can do both at an elite level.

Even fewer can do both at an elite level on a consistent basis over say the last 4 years in the NBA.

To me anyway- the stats bear out- as does certain subjective analysis from coaches, analysts, scouts- that at least 4 guys (and i may have missed a guy or two) have done it at that CONSISTENTLY ELITE level and i believe those 4 are Irving, Curry, Paul and Lillard.

If thats not clear I really dont know what else to say....thatll be my last word on it and let it stand where it is.

 

[trojanfan12]

Why are we talking about medicore players like Lin? lol

Because Wiggy thinks that Kyrie is the only player in the whole league who can beat a guy off the dribble and hit a jump shot.

He's also apparently the only player in the league who can hit a game winning shot over a bigger player.

 

[trojanfan12]

According to your logic then nobodies skill set is unique or specisl because every playet can do almost every aspect of the game

I mean lin can hit threes so ray allen is not unique in his 3 point shooting...rofl

The skill set isn't special Einstein. The talent is what separates them. You might be the only poster on here that's taken less seriously than Wiggy. Thanks for showing us all why.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Because Wiggy thinks that Kyrie is the only player in the whole league who can beat a guy off the dribble and hit a jump shot.

He's also apparently the only player in the league who can hit a game winning shot over a bigger player.

A lot of guys can beat someone off the dribble at hit a jump shot.

I only think 4 guys have done it on a consistently elite level- Curry, Irving, Paul and Lillard- and I am sure if i dug up enough stats it would be right to include another guy or two.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The skill set isn't special Einstein. The talent is what separates them. You might be the only poster on here that's taken less seriously than Wiggy. Thanks for showing us all why.

thats why i am saying they do it on an ELITE level and do it on a CONSISTENT level.

Jeremy Lin can do it- but he cant do it night in and night out and do it year after year. I have no clue why this is so hard to grasp.

 

[trojanfan12]

A lot of guys can beat someone off the dribble at hit a jump shot.

I only think 4 guys have done it on a consistently elite level- Curry, Irving, Paul and Lillard- and I am sure if i dug up enough stats it would be right to include another guy or two.

Wrong again. Plenty of others have done it consistently at an elite level. Again, if you don't know who they are, you have no business posting on basketball.

 

[trojanfan12]

thats why i am saying they do it on an ELITE level and do it on a CONSISTENT level.

Jeremy Lin can do it- but he cant do it night in and night out and do it year after year. I have no clue why this is so hard to grasp.

That's not what you said. You said the skill set was unique and special to Kyrie. Now you want to change it to doing it at an elite level consistently. Nice try.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wrong again. Plenty of others have done it consistently at an elite level. Again, if you don't know who they are, you have no business posting on basketball.

Well thats why I looked through the stats and posted the guys who are their contemporaries.

Like I said- look at Rose's 3 pt shooting- its wretched- so is Walls, so is Rondo's, Parker does not even shoot 3s because to him its an inefficient shot.

Ill try and look for a few others i guess- but i mean, im trying to think of other ones...Bledsoe? Teague? we saw that Teague has done it this year but he hasnt done it consistently and he isnt that great a 3 pt shooter.....

as i posted the stats for Lowry we saw that he doesnt shoot close enough to 40% to be conisdered an elite 3 pt shooter

Westbrook is in the low 30's from outside....

like i said- i might have missed a guy or two...but i looked and spent a lot more time than i probably should have and looked at the last 4 years of their careers- and the 4 guys i came up with were Kyrie, Paul, curry and lillard....

if your looking for that combo of both of those traits at a consistently elite level i dont know many other guys....Dragic maybe? but Dragic has only really been doing it for 2 years....

Dwade isnt an elite 3 pt shooter- he can run hot and rain them at times thats for sure- but for the seasons hes a high 20s low 30s.....

ill try and find another guy or two other than those 4...maybe lawson? lawson is probablya good candidate actually

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ty Lawson
XXXX PTS FG% 3PT%
14/15 16.8 43.8 34.6
13/14 17.6 43.1 35.6
12/13 16.7 46.1 36.6
11/12 16.4 48.8 36.5

i dunno....he might be close i guess- he only shoots about three-three pointers a game though...hes close though

Harden? I think we could add harden

his 3's the last 4 years are 38.4%, 36.6%, 36.8%, 39% with FG% of 45.6, 45.6, 43.8 and 49.1 ---- its not as high as the others but its getting closer to 40% than anyone else

Montae Ellis was another guy I thought of but his 3 pt shooting is pretty wretched 32.6%, 33.0%, 28.7& and 26.7%.....he DEFINITELY has the driving chops- but you cant call that elite shooting

Manu Ginobili? is Manu really an elite driver the last 4 years though? his 3's are 35.9, 34.9, 35.3 and 41.3.....so hes more mid thirties- id like to say right about 40% to be elite at 3 point shooting...at certain stretches of his career from like 05-08 he DEFINITELY would have been on there

 

[WiggyRuss]

Bradley Beal i think could get there eventaully-

his 3 pt shooting his 3 years in the league is OVER 40%...but his FG% are pretty darn low at about an average of 42%...he almost shoots the same from 3 as he does from the field....I think he could get tehre someday....

Mike Conley is a strong candidate ....FGs of 45.6, 45.0, 44.0, and 43.3 and 3pts of 41.9, 36.1, 36.1 and 37.7........its close....its about 44% from the field and 38% from 3....he is trending up though.....


so I think we can add Harden for sure to Irving, Curry, Lillard and Paul....and Mike Conley and Ty Lawson are close

 

[WiggyRuss]

if anyone else that reads this has anyone that could be missed let me know.

The criteria that i set out are- and the elite "driver" part is more subjective I suppose- you know it when you see it--- but as far as the elite shooter part goes say close to 40% from 3 and at least 45% from the field- and again- that can be a little misleading since guys like Rondo have a great FG but he shoots the vast majority of his shots at the rim alone...

and to be marked as CONSISTENT I looked over a span of 4 years....

and thus far I had Kyrie, Curry, Paul, Lillard (even though hes only been a pro 3 years)- and added Harden who i think qualifies----- and Ty Lawson and Mike Conley are on the fence...

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is why people make fun of you on these boards and why you have no credibility. You spent all that time looking up stats and making a long post that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I mean you quoted my original post with the stats--- I looked at the stats to determine who was elite- and i looked overa period of time to see who was consistent...that was the whole reason why I looked up the stats was to prove those 2 things

why else would i look up shooting stats other than to prove who was elite-and why else would i look up overa course of 4 years other than to prove who has done it on a consistent basis?

 

[Mecca]

I think J Crawford has the best handle in the NBA and can't get his own shot at will.

But, he is the epitome of an agony and ecstasy player.

He hits some big shots.

But, he misses far more than he makes.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's not what you said. You said the skill set was unique and special to Kyrie. Now you want to change it to doing it at an elite level consistently. Nice try.

Guess you're going to continue to ignore this and pretend that you were talking about something that you weren't. From what I'm told, that's your pretty much your m.o. Post something stupid and when called out on it, try and change what you said.

That shit may have worked for you at the other place, but it won't fly here.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Guess you're going to continue to ignore this and pretend that you were talking about something that you weren't. From what I'm told, that's your pretty much your m.o. Post something stupid and when called out on it, try and change what you said.

That shit may have worked for you at the other place, but it won't fly here.

dude, why on gods green earht would i look up stats other than to prove who was an elite shooter?

on why on gods green earth would i take the time to look up 4 years worth of stats other than to prove who was consistnet- i mean the post where you called me out even had the word "consistent" in it

i dont understand...

its way too late and i have class in the morning

gnight all!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lets analyze that consistency you mentioned compared to many of his peers shooting wise

Kyrie Irving- Pts. FG% 3pt% FT
14/15 22.1 46.7 41.3 85.2
13/14 20.8 43.0 35.8 86.1
12/13 22.5 45.2 39.1 85.5
11/12 18.5 46.9 39.9 87.2

Derrick Rose
14/15 18.6 41.6 31.3 80.8
11/12 21.8 43.5 31.2 81.2
10/11 25.0 44.5 33.2 85.8
9/10 20.8 48.9 26.7 76.6

Tony Parker (3's are irrelevant- only 1.0 a game)
14/15 14.5 48.3 53.5 79.8
13/14 16.7 49.9 37.3 81.1
12/13 20.3 52.2 35.3 84.5

Kyle Lowery
14/15 19.4 42.8 33.7 80.9
13/14 17.9 42.3 38.0 81.3
12/13 11.6 40.1 36.2 79.5
11/12 14.3 40.9 37.4 86.4

THE RW
14/15 25.2 42.5 25.7 80.9
13/14 21.8 43.7 31.8 82.6
12/13 23.2 43.8 32.3 80.0
11/12 23.6 45.7 31.6 82.3

Damian Lillard
14/15 21.8 43.4 36.7 86.3
13/14 20.7 42.4 39.4 87.1
12/13 19.0 42.9 36.8 84.4


John Wall
14/15 17.2 46.2 30.2 76.3
13/14 19.3 43.3 35.1 80.5
12/13 18.5 44.1 26.7 80.4
11/12 16.3 42.3 .07 78.9

Steph Curry
14/15 22.8 49.1 39.1 92.1
13/14 24.0 47.1 42.4 88.5
12/13 22.9 45.1 45.3 90.0
11/12 14.7 49.0 45.5 80.9

Jeff Teague
14/15 17.0 47.0 33.1 86.6
13/14 16.5 43.8 32.9 84.6
12/13 14.6 45.1 35.9 88.1
11/12 12.6 47.6 34.2 75.7


It sure looks like Kyrie- since he has came into the league- is among the most consistent shooters out there at the PG position.......AND Steph Curry is ridiculous...absolutely ridiculous---

?

 

[Mecca]

TF12, you watching the Laker game?

I'm impressed by the fight in these guys.

After losing that 9 pt lead in the last minute, I expected them to fold like a lawn chair.

Nope....those guys have some heart.

 

[trojanfan12]

TF12, you watching the Laker game?

I'm impressed by the fight in these guys.

After losing that 9 pt lead in the last minute, I expected them to fold like a lawn chair.

Nope....those guys have some heart.

Yeah I'm watching. One thing I can say about them is that they play hard every night. They don't always play well, but they play hard.

Byron is doing a good job of teaching them that the first step to eventually becoming a winning team is to have consistent effort.