watching Catching Hell

[kennyt12]

Man, I feel really sorry for Steve Bartman. Any rational person knows that it wasn't his fault that the Cubs lost! How can you threaten somebodies life over a freaking baseball game? Just stupid!

 

[Smart]

Any rational person knows that it wasn't his fault that the Cubs lost!

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is dead wrong. Let's not make Bartman out to be a saint. If he or someone in his section notices Alou and shouts to avoid the ball, we almost certainly win. Bartman, Gonzalez, and Dusty are the three people that Cubs fans blame for the loss, and in every case, the blame is fair.

It's easy to condemn "those crazy Cubs fans", but put yourself in our shoes. We all know people who waited their whole lives to witness the Cubs win the World Series only to never see it. You think of the Ron Santos, the Billy Williams, and the Ernie Banks, and you think that there is a decent shot that all of them may never see that title. Those people were robbed of what probably would have been a world series win because of that man. Many have passed in the years since 2003 never experiencing that title. I don't think Steve Bartman is a bad human being and certainly don't condone threats of violence, but I can't help but feel angry when thinking about what he did.

 

[kennyt12]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is dead wrong. Let's not make Bartman out to be a saint. If he or someone in his section notices Alou and shouts to avoid the ball, we almost certainly win. Bartman, Gonzalez, and Dusty are the three people that Cubs fans blame for the loss, and in every case, the blame is fair.

It's easy to condemn "those crazy Cubs fans", but put yourself in our shoes. We all know people who waited their whole lives to witness the Cubs win the World Series only to never see it. You think of the Ron Santos, the Billy Williams, and the Ernie Banks, and you think that there is a decent shot that all of them may never see that title. Those people were robbed of what probably would have been a world series win because of that man. Many have passed in the years since 2003 never experiencing that title. I don't think Steve Bartman is a bad human being and certainly don't condone threats of violence, but I can't help but feel angry when thinking about what he did.

So what you are saying is nothing else matters after the Bartman play? Because the Cubs had the opportunity to get out of the inning but didn't. For the record, I think the umpires could have solved the problem by making the proper call and calling the hitter out on interference.

 

[kennyt12]

I'd like to believe that I would get out of the way of my team from making the play but in the heat of the moment you never know what you're going to do. I mean, look at how many people went after the ball. It wasn't just Bartman.

Bill Buckner also gets screwed because the Red Sox had a few opportunities to put the game away.

 

[Lukawren24]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is dead wrong. Let's not make Bartman out to be a saint. If he or someone in his section notices Alou and shouts to avoid the ball, we almost certainly win. Bartman, Gonzalez, and Dusty are the three people that Cubs fans blame for the loss, and in every case, the blame is fair.

It's easy to condemn "those crazy Cubs fans", but put yourself in our shoes. We all know people who waited their whole lives to witness the Cubs win the World Series only to never see it. You think of the Ron Santos, the Billy Williams, and the Ernie Banks, and you think that there is a decent shot that all of them may never see that title. Those people were robbed of what probably would have been a world series win because of that man. Many have passed in the years since 2003 never experiencing that title. I don't think Steve Bartman is a bad human being and certainly don't condone threats of violence, but I can't help but feel angry when thinking about what he did.

Cub fans are funny. Never once have I heard them talk about being up 3-0 in that series. Bartman had nothing to do with that. You shouldnt even have been playing that game.

And what about the moron they interview in that show, the one that walked all the way down to barman and threw beer on him. He acted proud of what he did in the interview. That guy Is an absolute moron. I mean what kind of idiot threatens someone bodily harm over a sporting event....regardless of how long it's been since you won it all.

 

[Smart]

So what you are saying is nothing else matters after the Bartman play? Because the Cubs had the opportunity to get out of the inning but didn't. For the record, I think the umpires could have solved the problem by making the proper call and calling the hitter out on interference.

The problem with that is the ball was technically in the stands, so it wasn't officially fan interference. Yes, the Cubs had the chance to get out of the inning, but we didn't because Gonzalez blew the double play ball and Dusty didn't take a nervous/tired Prior out. That's why I said those three people are who we blame.

Cub fans are funny. Never once have I heard them talk about being up 3-0 in that series. Bartman had nothing to do with that. You shouldnt even have been playing that game.

We were up 3-1, not 3-0. In Game 5, Josh Beckett was on the mound for them and he kicked our ass like he kicked everyone's ass that postseason. Nobdy was going to beat him the way he was pitching that day. Game 6 was the game that we expected to win. Prior was an 18 game winner who had a sub-2.50 ERA. We had the game in our hand and we blew it. Yes, Game 7 (when we also had the lead) was frustrating, but nothing like Game 6.

 

[Ginger]

So what you are saying is nothing else matters after the Bartman play? Because the Cubs had the opportunity to get out of the inning but didn't. For the record, I think the umpires could have solved the problem by making the proper call and calling the hitter out on interference.

That most certainly would not have been the proper call. Can't give the home team the benefit of the doubt when their fan interferes or else every ball into the stands would result in an out. The problem was not that play at all. The problem was all the subsequent plays and the hissy fit that Alou threw on the field. I seem to remember that he had the opportunity to make a play but choked and all the Cubs came unraveled. Fan interference had nothing to do with that game. Lousy ballplaying was the culprit. :washing:

 

[Ginger]

The problem with that is the ball was technically in the stands, so it wasn't officially fan interference. Yes, the Cubs had the chance to get out of the inning, but we didn't because Gonzalez blew the double play ball and Dusty didn't take a nervous/tired Prior out. That's why I said those three people are who we blame.



We were up 3-1, not 3-0. In Game 5, Josh Beckett was on the mound for them and he kicked our ass like he kicked everyone's ass that postseason. Nobdy was going to beat him the way he was pitching that day. Game 6 was the game that we expected to win. Prior was an 18 game winner who had a sub-2.50 ERA. We had the game in our hand and we blew it. Yes, Game 7 (when we also had the lead) was frustrating, but nothing like Game 6.

The fact that you are singling people out speaks volumes to me. I know its a tired cliche' but you win and lose as a team. When someone drops the ball another guy has to pick them up. When teammates cannot give the assist then your team loses and as a result you are not a championship caliber team. Championship teams make all kinds of errors. Some show up in the stat books and some don't; however, those teams find a way to win in spite of their errors. They don't go around blaming some poor fan who really did NOTHING wrong.

 

[DallasMCRSdynasty]

So, even if the Cubs had beaten Florida, who says they would have beaten the Yankees that year? People that mistreated (to the point he had to move/go into hiding) that fan are pretty much human filth.

 

[dmc0015]

The problem with that is the ball was technically in the stands, so it wasn't officially fan interference. Yes, the Cubs had the chance to get out of the inning, but we didn't because Gonzalez blew the double play ball and Dusty didn't take a nervous/tired Prior out. That's why I said those three people are who we blame.



We were up 3-1, not 3-0. In Game 5, Josh Beckett was on the mound for them and he kicked our ass like he kicked everyone's ass that postseason. Nobdy was going to beat him the way he was pitching that day. Game 6 was the game that we expected to win. Prior was an 18 game winner who had a sub-2.50 ERA. We had the game in our hand and we blew it. Yes, Game 7 (when we also had the lead) was frustrating, but nothing like Game 6.

You're points aren't bad, but Bartman is an easy scapegoat. None of those players would blame the guy.

Now I also can see that happening in Texas, or anywhere for that matter. I was at a game this year where a fan took an out away from Beltre which was followed by a few runs being scored. Several fans went over to the guy and began scolding him, and later when he got up to leave his seat there were several people who yelled at him. I myself was pretty pissed, and I was sitting across the ballpark from the guy.

If that was during the playoffs then I imagine the reaction would have been much worse.

 

[ashcan]

The Cubs don't deserve any success until they publicly apologize to Steve Bartman. I think Alou makes the catch, but it wasn't like the fan reached out 3 feet unto the field. His interference was nothing like Maier's in New York when he took that flyball from Tony Terasco. Where is Gonzalez, the shortstop in all this mess? He could change the Cubs fortunes by creating some good karma by manning up and taking the blame. That ball he booted was a tailor made double play and woulda' got the Cubs outta' the inning with a least a 2 run lead. That would've been enough. But he, just like all those loser Cub fans, blame Steve Bartman? Oh yeah, the idiot the threw the beer shoulda' got his ass whoopped.
Look, we can wear our team jerseys/colors, go through pre game rituals, do whatever we want, but we don't effect the game. It's played between the lines and ther ain't no such thing as a sports god or gods. YOu either make the play or you don't. I know we feel doomed, cursed, snake-bitten, or whatever, but it ain't about that. If you played the game, any game for that matter, you know that the so-called sports gods never come to mind when you're in the middle of the action. I think Bob Stanley is another coward. He cost the Red Sox that series in '86, not Billy Buck. I don't understand him not manning up and saying his wild pitch was the series changer.
Cub fans, you need to apologize to STeve Bartman. He didn't make you lose, neither did that cat or goat. You've sucked for years, just like the Rangers did prior to 1996.

 

[fordman84]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is dead wrong. Let's not make Bartman out to be a saint. If he or someone in his section notices Alou and shouts to avoid the ball, we almost certainly win. Bartman, Gonzalez, and Dusty are the three people that Cubs fans blame for the loss, and in every case, the blame is fair.

It's easy to condemn "those crazy Cubs fans", but put yourself in our shoes. We all know people who waited their whole lives to witness the Cubs win the World Series only to never see it. You think of the Ron Santos, the Billy Williams, and the Ernie Banks, and you think that there is a decent shot that all of them may never see that title. Those people were robbed of what probably would have been a world series win because of that man. Many have passed in the years since 2003 never experiencing that title. I don't think Steve Bartman is a bad human being and certainly don't condone threats of violence, but I can't help but feel angry when thinking about what he did.

So Bartman doesn't mess up the play and the Cubs go on to win the WS? Good to know.

 

[ashcan]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is dead wrong. Let's not make Bartman out to be a saint. If he or someone in his section notices Alou and shouts to avoid the ball, we almost certainly win. Bartman, Gonzalez, and Dusty are the three people that Cubs fans blame for the loss, and in every case, the blame is fair.

It's easy to condemn "those crazy Cubs fans", but put yourself in our shoes. We all know people who waited their whole lives to witness the Cubs win the World Series only to never see it. You think of the Ron Santos, the Billy Williams, and the Ernie Banks, and you think that there is a decent shot that all of them may never see that title. Those people were robbed of what probably would have been a world series win because of that man. Many have passed in the years since 2003 never experiencing that title. I don't think Steve Bartman is a bad human being and certainly don't condone threats of violence, but I can't help but feel angry when thinking about what he did.

What did Bartman do besides act like a fan? Hell, 3 of the people on the special where ALL trying to get to that ball. Remember what the female said about how the ball was coming right to her and the wind blew it toward Bartman at the last minute? You think he did that on purpose?
Dude, I'm sorry for your teams misfortune. As a Rangers fan since 1973, I kinda get it. I've seen my share of bad baseball. Hell, I've seen the Rangers lose games in ways that only they knew how to. But we all waited it out and sure as hell didn't blame it on some fan who's only fault was BEING a fan. If you wanna' blame somebody, blame your shortstop for gaffing on a tailor-made double play grounder that gets you out of the inning.

 

[Ginger]

You know what guys, even if Alou makes the play or Gonzalez turns the double play the Cubs would still have found a way to lose that game or that series. It is what they do.