tOfficial 2018 Recruiting Thread

[TrustMeIamRight]

He has the size/toughness but yea his athleticism isnt the greatest. Hes got enough speed to get by in college but doesn't hit that next gear and he's not making many people miss in open space either. Straight line grinder runners are not the commodity they once were in the NFL.

I hear all this talk about him having a breakout year this year, but Id say its likely he sort of gets lost in a carries share shuffle with what it looks like theyre trying to do with the new OC

Yeah. I said to ATF last year, I got to watch him quite a bit in HS -- I think he will be a solid back at OSU, but he is just missing that quick twitch cuts to hit a hole and take it to the house. He will get you the tough stuff and put up numbers against lesser teams, but you won't see him tear up better teams like Zeke.

That is the only reason I said BS to the 4.35 they said he ran. That isn't his game and I'd be beyond shocked if it were legit. I can see the bench because he is a strong guy and will put his shoulder down and hit someone. You aren't going to see his outrun many guys though.

 

[osubuckeye89]

Yeah. I said to ATF last year, I got to watch him quite a bit in HS -- I think he will be a solid back at OSU, but he is just missing that quick twitch cuts to hit a hole and take it to the house. He will get you the tough stuff and put up numbers against lesser teams, but you won't see him tear up better teams like Zeke.

That is the only reason I said BS to the 4.35 they said he ran. That isn't his game and I'd be beyond shocked if it were legit. I can see the bench because he is a strong guy and will put his shoulder down and hit someone. You aren't going to see his outrun many guys though.

I don't believe any 40 times that come out of practices. Meyer had a lot of players with unbelievable 40 times coming out of practices at Florida too. They are definitely mostly inflated. I'd tap Weber in the 4.5-4.55 range if he ran a legit electronic 40. McCall and Dobbins are going to get a lot of player. Weber will definitely be the power horse. He had 182 carries last year, wouldn't expect him to go over that (a few less if anything) this year with the ball spreading that's liable to go on.

 

[Codaxx]

I just don't think people understand how rare 4.4 speed is in football. Running below that is just amazing. Every year we hear about how recruits run a 4.4. It is amazing BS. The Opening has more 4.4 guys than the combine every year. Somehow these 17 years olds are faster than the same players after 4 years of maturing and strength training. Almost all of these times are manipulated. 99% of kids claiming 4.4 speed are the result of a hand timed 40.

 

[Cowboyinexile]

I just don't think people understand how rare 4.4 speed is in football. Running below that is just amazing. Every year we hear about how recruits run a 4.4. It is amazing BS. The Opening has more 4.4 guys than the combine every year. Somehow these 17 years olds are faster than the same players after 4 years of maturing and strength training. Almost all of these times are manipulated. 99% of kids claiming 4.4 speed are the result of a hand timed 40.

Age is a factor. At 17 they haven't had elite strength training to bulk them up and slow them down a little. Plus they haven't haven't taken the body shots from stronger players that can injure and slow down their top speed.

You see it in basketball with slam dunk contests. Check out the McDonald's AA game versus a college contest. The HS kids are better. They have the same athletic ability but far less wear and tear on the body. Pros are a different story because at that point you have separated the freak athletes from those who are just gifted.

 

[Innermind]

Harold Joiner, Mountain Brook, Running Back

The #3 ranked RB in the nation per 247, 4-star Harold Joiner out of Birmingham, AL has named Michigan State as his top choice/favorite.
Harold Joiner, a 2018 4-star RB from Birmingham (Ala.) Mountain Brook, has Michigan State on top

Hey @7Samurai13 @SpartyNash13 @Edonidd is Dantonio gonna be able to get this kid?

If Joiner does choose Michigan State, will it be a bit of payback for when Alabama plucked eventual Heisman winner Mark Ingram out of Michigan State's backyard a decade ago?

 

[Across The Field]

Your whole argument is based on the fact Elliot was good last year. That's pretty much it. Which is weak, because both coaches can recruit at a high level. Like I said before, having success on the pro level just isn't an indicator of why kids pick the coaches/programs they pick.

It's also based on Hyde, who as I mentioned, has had more pro success than Harbaugh's top 2 RBs ever combined. He, Elliott, and Weber have been back-to-back-to-back RBs at OSU, and each has had tremendous success. With another strong year, Weber is likely to be another top 3 round pick, and has even been mocked as a 1st rounder by walterfootball.com. Harbaugh simply doesn't come close to stacking up to this.

 

[Across The Field]

Id be shocked if Weber was ever a 1st rounder.

I don't think he will really have success in the NFL, he's never really wowed me, even though he has produced enough. Reminds me of Antonio Pittman, good college career number wise but probably wont do much at the next level. Probably around a 3rd rounder though eventually. I could see him leaving after this season if he has a big enough year. Not sure that will happen though since guys like Mccall and Dobbins are likely to poach a decent amount of carries.

If he has a big year, as many are suggesting is likely, he could go late first/early 2nd. Guice and Barkley both looks like shoe-ins as top 10-15 picks, but then it's wide open after that. It would hardly be shocking. Keep in mind, he put up 1000+ yards last year with a very poorly-led offense and nearly brand new offensive line.

 

[Codaxx]

Age is a factor. At 17 they haven't had elite strength training to bulk them up and slow them down a little. Plus they haven't haven't taken the body shots from stronger players that can injure and slow down their top speed.

You see it in basketball with slam dunk contests. Check out the McDonald's AA game versus a college contest. The HS kids are better. They have the same athletic ability but far less wear and tear on the body. Pros are a different story because at that point you have separated the freak athletes from those who are just gifted.

That just isn't the case. College track guys are bigger and faster than HS track guys. Professionals are faster than College track guys.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sb...13-nfl-combine-high-school-40-yard-dash-times

 

[Across The Field]

Stanford has the harshest restriction academically of any FBS program. Michigan has tremendous academics, but Stanford is the king of academics in FBS. Hell -- I'm not even sure if Michigan has the best academics in the B1G -- NW is way up there.

That being said -- Harbaugh hasn't had but one recruiting class at UM see the field. This year will be year two. He has had two RB's he has recruited -- Chris Evans and NJ kid they took from OSU (can't remember his name). Evans was the best back on the team as a true freshman last year. The NJ kid struggled with academics and was redshirted before the season even started. I will readily say -- RB is one of the few positions where UM has missed on some big targets and hasn't landed any real studs, but Evans is going to be very good.

Will be interesting once UM has a proven OL in place what type of RB we can bring in. Tough to sell a program to a RB when your OL struggled to open holes to run through.

This is part of the reason I'm giving Weber the benefit of the doubt. OSU's offensive line last year was pretty green outside of Price and Elflein, not to mention was run so poorly under Beck. With Wilson in presumably improving the passing game, it should open things up for Weber, who's another year stronger and more acclimated to being the bellcow. If he doesn't improve this year, I think we see Dobbins take over.

And you're thinking of Kareem Walker.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If he has a big year, as many are suggesting is likely, he could go late first/early 2nd. Guice and Barkley both looks like shoe-ins as top 10-15 picks, but then it's wide open after that. It would hardly be shocking. Keep in mind, he put up 1000+ yards last year with a very poorly-led offense and nearly brand new offensive line.

1st round picks in the NFL are the freak RB's. Guys like Zeke, guys like Leonard Fournette, guys like Todd Gurley.

These are guys who run legit 4.4's, can make guys Miss in space, can run you over and outrun you. Weber just isn't that kind of back.

The NFL isn't about the every down RB anymore. It is RB by committee for most teams. I think Weber will have a solid NFL career, but he lacks the explosiveness of the type of backs picked early in the NFL draft. As another OSU fan, and I agree wholeheartedly, Weber is more a grinder type of back.

 

[Across The Field]

1st round picks in the NFL are the freak RB's. Guys like Zeke, guys like Leonard Fournette, guys like Todd Gurley.

These are guys who run legit 4.4's, can make guys Miss in space, can run you over and outrun you. Weber just isn't that kind of back.

The NFL isn't about the every down RB anymore. It is RB by committee for most teams. I think Weber will have a solid NFL career, but he lacks the explosiveness of the type of backs picked early in the NFL draft. As another OSU fan, and I agree wholeheartedly, Weber is more a grinder type of back.

I don't think it's fair to say it's impossible for him to improve, especially in a real offense behind an experienced line. He's no Zeke, let's get that straight. Zeke is a generational talent. However, I don't think you can tell me guys like Mark Ingram, Melvin Gordon, Isaiah Crowell, or Spencer Ware are much better talents than Weber, and they're all enjoying solid careers thusfar. I actually think Ingram is a fair comparison for Weber, and it wouldn't shock me if he had a similar trajectory. Ingram's Heisman campaign was 1,658/17 TD/6.1 YPC. I think Weber can very well hit those sort of numbers this year.

 

[Codaxx]

1st round picks in the NFL are the freak RB's. Guys like Zeke, guys like Leonard Fournette, guys like Todd Gurley.

These are guys who run legit 4.4's, can make guys Miss in space, can run you over and outrun you. Weber just isn't that kind of back.

The NFL isn't about the every down RB anymore. It is RB by committee for most teams. I think Weber will have a solid NFL career, but he lacks the explosiveness of the type of backs picked early in the NFL draft. As another OSU fan, and I agree wholeheartedly, Weber is more a grinder type of back.

By the way
Fournette- 4.51
Elliott- 4.47

Those freaks aren't running legit 4.4s
Top 5 NFL rushers last year with 40 times
Elliot- 4.47
Jordan Howard 4.57
DeMarco Murray- 4.41
Jay Ajayi- 4.57
Le'veon Bell- 4.6

Only 4.4 guy on the list is Murray

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't think it's fair to say it's impossible for him to improve, especially in a real offense behind an experienced line. He's no Zeke, let's get that straight. Zeke is a generational talent. However, I don't think you can tell me guys like Mark Ingram, Melvin Gordon, Isaiah Crowell, or Spencer Ware are much better talents than Weber, and they're all enjoying solid careers thusfar. I actually think Ingram is a fair comparison for Weber, and it wouldn't shock me if he had a similar trajectory. Ingram's Heisman campaign was 1,658/17 TD/6.1 YPC. I think Weber can very well hit those sort of numbers this year.

I can see we don't see eye to eye on Weber. I don't see him as elite RB. I see him as a guy who ran for 95 yards on 27 carries against the 3 quality defenses OSU faced.

Comparing him to Heisman winners is a bit much. Let me ask you this -- how often did you see Weber make someone Miss in the open field? How often did you see him outrun a defense? How many times did you see him juke a tackler in the backfield and break off a big run?

He is a guy who hits a hole and runs hard. He isn't elusive, he isn't running over guys, he isn't outrunning the secondary. Those are the type of skills first round picks in the NFL have. Doesn't mean he isn't a very good RB, especially in college. He hits the hole full speed and doesn't avoid contact. He always fights for the extra yards. I think he will pile up stats against lesser defenses, but against quality defenses, he will struggle.

 

[starbigd]

Harold Joiner, Mountain Brook, Running Back

The #3 ranked RB in the nation per 247, 4-star Harold Joiner out of Birmingham, AL has named Michigan State as his top choice/favorite.
Harold Joiner, a 2018 4-star RB from Birmingham (Ala.) Mountain Brook, has Michigan State on top

Hey @7Samurai13 @SpartyNash13 @Edonidd is Dantonio gonna be able to get this kid?

If Joiner does choose Michigan State, will it be a bit of payback for when Alabama plucked eventual Heisman winner Mark Ingram out of Michigan State's backyard a decade ago?

Didn't like this kid's film.......no moves, he's just bigger than most of the kids he's playing against.....not fast either. He looks like a prime candidate to be moved to LB or defense. I just don't see what makes him a 4 star at all.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

By the way
Fournette- 4.51
Elliott- 4.47

Those freaks aren't running legit 4.4s
Top 5 NFL rushers last year with 40 times
Elliot- 4.47
Jordan Howard 4.57
DeMarco Murray- 4.41
Jay Ajayi- 4.57
Le'veon Bell- 4.6

Only 4.4 guy on the list is Murray

You won't hear me argue. I already said -- if Weber's 40 was laser timed at 4.35 -- he'd be the fastest guy at the combine last year at RB. That's why I called BS. That and the fact I watched him multiple times in high school and he wasn't even the fastest RB on his team.

 

[Across The Field]

I can see we don't see eye to eye on Weber. I don't see him as elite RB. I see him as a guy who ran for 95 yards on 27 carries against the 3 quality defenses OSU faced.

Comparing him to Heisman winners is a bit much. Let me ask you this -- how often did you see Weber make someone Miss in the open field? How often did you see him outrun a defense? How many times did you see him juke a tackler in the backfield and break off a big run?

He is a guy who hits a hole and runs hard. He isn't elusive, he isn't running over guys, he isn't outrunning the secondary. Those are the type of skills first round picks in the NFL have. Doesn't mean he isn't a very good RB, especially in college. He hits the hole full speed and doesn't avoid contact. He always fights for the extra yards. I think he will pile up stats against lesser defenses, but against quality defenses, he will struggle.

I mean, the guy broke a tackle once every 4.4 carries according to PFF, so yes I saw him run over/through plenty of guys. Watch his highlights and you'll see plenty of times where he makes guys miss, hits a hole, and pulls off an impressive run. Again, he had just turned 19 before the season, so his body is still maturing. He got caught on some tackles last year that he could've broken, but that's largely a result of strength and conditioning, which he's had another full offseason to work on in arguably the top S&C program in college football. He made a lot more decisive cuts to make guys miss than you're giving him credit for, including impressive runs vs Oklahoma, PSU, and Wisconsin that come to mind. And again, this was behind a green OL in a very watered-down offense with a neutered passing game that allowed defenses to stack the box.

You can have your opinion on him, and that's fine, but here's something to consider: In the first 12 games of the 2014 season (his first as a full-time starter), Elliott ran for 1182 yards and 10 touchdowns on 197 carries. 6 yards a carry, 98.5 a game. In Weber’s first 12 games of the 2016 season, he ran for 1072 yards and nine touchdowns on 177 carries. Just about 6.1 yards a carry, a little over 89 a game. While he's no Zeke, as a rusher, he wasn't far off. When you also consider opponents (Weber faced 4 ranked teams, all finished top 10; Zeke faced 1 ranked team, 1 top 10), Weber's numbers weren't so awful. Give him this year and then tell me what kind of RB he is once he's actually put in a spot to have success.

 

[starbigd]

What separates Zeke is not his physical abilities, it's his VISION

Vision in a RB is RARE.....it's what really separates the really good backs from the elite, great backs. The physical side always helps......but vision is something you simply can't coach or practice

 

[romeo212000]

What separates Zeke is not his physical abilities, it's his VISION

Vision in a RB is RARE.....it's what really separates the really good backs from the elite, great backs. The physical side always helps......but vision is something you simply can't coach or practice

That dude's cut backs are damn near Barry Sanders level of awesome.

 

[Across The Field]

That dude's cut backs are damn near Barry Sanders level of awesome.

Especially when you consider he's got 25 lbs on Barry.

 

[Across The Field]

What separates Zeke is not his physical abilities, it's his VISION

Vision in a RB is RARE.....it's what really separates the really good backs from the elite, great backs. The physical side always helps......but vision is something you simply can't coach or practice

He's also on a different level in the passing game. He's a solid, if not great receiving option. However, his ability to block and pick up blitzes is on an all-time level for a RB.