THE PAC 12 THREAD v.5

[mrwallace2ku]

WERE COMING TO A/YOUR VENUE SOON! WERE GONNA KICK YOURN NUTZ INTO THE DIRT….guaranteed.

 

[Vitamike]

There is no inconsistency in her story. The Title IX office chose not to believe her even though she is the victim.

Unless she went to counseling with a licensed psychologist who told USC that she was suffering from battered women's syndrome...USC had no business saying anything like that to her and are protecting themselves first,



And yet you claim to find inconsistencies in her story which is a 1st person account and somehow think USC is doing the right thing in believing the 3rd person account.



Yeah, it has to be that I'm bothered...not that you're wrong or jumping to any conclusions.

Okay, if you really want to continue the discussion, I will. But I think it's obvious you are not really making an earnest attempt to understand what I've actually posted, and instead choose to make accusing statements about my naivety on the subject, and about so called claims I've never actually made.

I have never said there 'are' inconsistencies in her story, rather speculated on the leap between her story and the Title IX ruling in this case. The speculation was obviously an attempt to make sense of a situation that does not make any sense.

This is no different than some of your speculations to the SC investigation ruling as an overreaction to avoid future lawsuits, and that they are protecting themselves first.

Who knows, SC could deny many of the claims she made in her statement. Taking everything she has said on face value makes many assumptions of it's own.

The thing is, and this has been my point all along, we don't actually know anything outside of the acquisitions she has made in her statement on the way the investigation was handled.

One thing we all know, there are always two sides to every story, and to this point we've only heard one, and that is hers.

 

[Vitamike]

Female student: USC threatened me because I said my boyfriend didn't beat me up - The College Fix

Probably by far the most informative post I have ever seen from you AG!

Well done!

To that extent, and from what I have just read, I wholeheartedly concede, and believe every word of the young lady.

All along, I believed as I posted, in the 'due process' of the Title IX as one would expect after viewing their website....

Request a Meeting with Secretary Betsy DeVos - Know Your IX

But after reading through the young lady's actual statement and then reading through a link included in that statement, (Linked below) it is clear that there is another legal camp that opposes the 'Due Process' camp, and demonstrates the other side of the story to some extent. So I'm good with conceding this right here and now, however I am utterly amazed at the underlying political current of ultra feminism allowed to occur at USC.

Generally speaking, the 2011 DCL has created two legal camps: the “orthodox feminist” camp and the “due process” camp. The “orthodox feminist” or “campus feminist” camp relies upon a Manichaean view of the sexes: men are aggressive demons whereas women are virginal angels whose virtue depends on their passivity.

To date, I haven't heard anyone on this thread speak on the 'Orthodox Feminist' or 'Campus Feminist' camp that is running the Title IX offices at USC.

If you haven't had a chance to read it, you should. It is long, but it is riveting, and hard to fathom the underlying impact the 'Orthodox Feminist' camp and how it seemingly collaborates the young lady's statement of the unjust investigative sanctions placed on the USC Kicker, and targets a thousand Men of Troy annually!!! WOW, just WOW!!

A NEW CLASS OF VICTIMS: ABUSE OF TITLE IX AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

 

[AlaskaGuy]

SC's AD and HC did nothing for that kid. If I was a recruit who was offered by SC I'd tell them to go fvck themselves. If your coach isn't going to back you then there's no need to play for a spineless cuck like that at an institution that has no problem bending over innocent students just to appease a few feminist liberal loving cvnts.

 

[wazzu31]

The due process stuff is what set the fireworks off in Pullman last year. I understand the intent of now allowing full due process but it screws the alleged perpetrator if he is innocent.

 

[trojanfan12]

Okay, if you really want to continue the discussion, I will. But I think it's obvious you are not really making an earnest attempt to understand what I've actually posted, and instead choose to make accusing statements about my naivety on the subject, and about so called claims I've never actually made.

Whatever you say.

I have never said there 'are' inconsistencies in her story, rather speculated on the leap between her story and the Title IX ruling in this case. The speculation was obviously an attempt to make sense of a situation that does not make any sense.

Actually, you did say there were inconsistencies with her story. Also, it makes perfect sense if you understand the position the current climate puts the school in.

It is truly a no win situation for the school. If they ruled in her boyfriends favor, thus believing what she said and something else happens, the school looks like they didn't try to protect her and open themselves up to a lawsuit.

If they rule as they did, they run the risk of costing her boyfriend the opportunity to continue his education at the school he's already been attending for 3 years.

This is no different than some of your speculations to the SC investigation ruling as an overreaction to avoid future lawsuits, and that they are protecting themselves first.

The difference is that the story of the alleged victim actually backs up my point about the schools behavior.

Who knows, SC could deny many of the claims she made in her statement. Taking everything she has said on face value makes many assumptions of it's own.

Again, there's a huge difference, and far fewer assumptions made when going with the account of the actual alleged victim than of some 3rd party who didn't even make the initial report themselves.

One thing we all know, there are always two sides to every story, and to this point we've only heard one, and that is hers.

It also happens to be the single most important story, since she is allegedly the victim and these actions were supposedly taken on her behalf.

 

[trojanfan12]

SC's AD and HC did nothing for that kid. If I was a recruit who was offered by SC I'd tell them to go fvck themselves. If your coach isn't going to back you then there's no need to play for a spineless cuck like that at an institution that has no problem bending over innocent students just to appease a few feminist liberal loving cvnts.

USC's AD and HC can't do anything for the kid. Once it hit the Title IX office, there was nothing they could do for him.

 

[Vitamike]

USC's AD and HC can't do anything for the kid. Once it hit the Title IX office, there was nothing they could do for him.

Once I read Gloria Allred had a part in the USC Title IX, I knew the young man was fucked!

 

[WizardHawk]

USC's AD and HC can't do anything for the kid. Once it hit the Title IX office, there was nothing they could do for him.

Meh, that's just AG being AG. Even he has to have some understanding that this entirely overblown process has taken away any chance at all for coaches and staff to do shit in these cases. He's just trying to stick his finger in your eye because that's what he does.

Of course I think everyone is leaning toward believing this young woman. What we don't know is what the 'multiple witnesses' actually saw, what they said they saw, and what impact that had on this process.

It sure feels like the pendulum has swung the other way and now you are entirely guilty even if you can prove yourself innocent just so we can make damned sure we look like we are always doing something about even the hint of DV. How true that is may be up for debate, but it sure feels that way.

 

[trojanfan12]

Once I read Gloria Allred had a part in the USC Title IX, I knew the young man was fucked!

FACT!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Meh, that's just AG being AG. Even he has to have some understanding that this entirely overblown process has taken away any chance at all for coaches and staff to do shit in these cases. He's just trying to stick his finger in your eye because that's what he does.

Of course I think everyone is leaning toward believing this young woman. What we don't know is what the 'multiple witnesses' actually saw, what they said they saw, and what impact that had on this process.

It sure feels like the pendulum has swung the other way and now you are entirely guilty even if you can prove yourself innocent just so we can make damned sure we look like we are always doing something about even the hint of DV. How true that is may be up for debate, but it sure feels that way.

I know. AG gonna AG. lol

Imo, this is what happens when schools don't handle things the right way the first time. With all of the reports that we have seen over the years, where it has turned out that schools have downplayed, or just plain ignored allegations of assaults on women, it puts other schools in a bit of a tough spot. Schools who actually may be interested in holding their players accountable, may almost feel like they have to take action, even when none is warranted, just to prevent the possibility of looking like they don't take these things seriously.

 

[Vitamike]

What we don't know is what the 'multiple witnesses' actually saw, what they said they saw, and what impact that had on this process.

According to the young lady, is was not pretty, this is from her statement...

Terrible and untrue things have been said about Matt by people who don't even know him

With all of the reports that we have seen over the years, where it has turned out that schools have downplayed, or just plain ignored allegations of assaults on women, it puts other schools in a bit of a tough spot. Schools who actually may be interested in holding their players accountable, may almost feel like they have to take action, even when none is warranted, just to prevent the possibility of looking like they don't take these things seriously.

These sorts of incidents on the other end of the spectrum are eventually going to come to a head. The 'Due Process' camp has let down some victims, and has opened the door for this 'witch hunt' process to thrive, but Title IX is a federal civil right for all which is suppose to protect both the accuser as well as the accused.

The latter is not happening, and maybe this is the case to turn things on it's ear!

 

[trojanfan12]

According to the young lady, is was not pretty, this is from her statement...




These sorts of incidents on the other end of the spectrum are eventually going to come to a head. The 'Due Process' camp has let down some victims, and has opened the door for this 'witch hunt' process to thrive, but Title IX is a federal civil right for all which is suppose to protect both the accuser as well as the accused.

The latter is not happening, and maybe this is the case to turn things on it's ear!

We can only hope. I think we can all agree that we don't want to see any cases of a woman being assaulted and the person who did it going unpunished. But at the same time, we don't want to see someone who is truly innocent get punished just so the university can "look tough" and/or avoid a lawsuit.

Hopefully it's not too late for USC to correct this.

 

[WizardHawk]

According to the young lady, is was not pretty, this is from her statement...

Yes, I know what she said. I also saw what little the school responded with 'multiple witnesses'. They also said if the parties agreed to open it up they would publicly share what they had. I don't know if they are also saying they need permission from the witnesses to open it up.

I mean it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that there was an actual DV situation. Either way there should be a lot more weight before taking these drastic steps. I'd rather a victim that doesn't want help doesn't get justice they should have than to send innocent kids packing from their school and ruining their lives. That was my point. Even if there was an event and she's just covering it up he shouldn't have been kicked from the team/school without very damning evidence to support it. We do not know what evidence they actually did have in this case. We only have her statements.

 

[nddulac]

We do not know what evidence they actually did have in this case. We only have her statements.

This is why I said there has to be more to this story. Her statements are at complete odds with the conclusion of the Title IX findings.

Also - it is ridiculous to think that the AD or Head Coach should have any input into this situation. It has nothing to do with athletics.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, I know what she said. I also saw what little the school responded with 'multiple witnesses'. They also said if the parties agreed to open it up they would publicly share what they had. I don't know if they are also saying they need permission from the witnesses to open it up.

I mean it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that there was an actual DV situation. Either way there should be a lot more weight before taking these drastic steps. I'd rather a victim that doesn't want help doesn't get justice they should have than to send innocent kids packing from their school and ruining their lives. That was my point. Even if there was an event and she's just covering it up he shouldn't have been kicked from the team/school without very damning evidence to support it. We do not know what evidence they actually did have in this case. We only have her statements.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what the school's Title IX office says they have. Who are the multiple witnesses? I mean, if you just have Boermeester, Katz, the person who said they saw it and the person who reported it...that's multiple witnesses. Is that what they mean by "multiple witnesses"? Or were there others in the neighborhood or other students who supposedly know or saw something?

 

[WizardHawk]

This is why I said there has to be more to this story. Her statements are at complete odds with the conclusion of the Title IX findings.

Also - it is ridiculous to think that the AD or Head Coach should have any input into this situation. It has nothing to do with athletics.

Sure there is more to the story, but is it that the system has gone too far and placed too much emphasis on too little in the name of protecting battered women who don't want help? Or was there actually compelling evidence they simply couldn't ignore?

And yes, they can't include coaches because it was their inclusion for so long that always seemed to leave true victims without anything remotely looking like justice.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what the school's Title IX office says they have. Who are the multiple witnesses? I mean, if you just have Boermeester, Katz, the person who said they saw it and the person who reported it...that's multiple witnesses. Is that what they mean by "multiple witnesses"? Or were there others in the neighborhood or other students who supposedly know or saw something?

And/or did they have others they might have interviewed that brought up prior situations? Could there be a history of fighting? Even if it wasn't to the point of actual violence.

Too many what ifs here.

I still say based off just what little we do know it's hard to come up with kicking him off the team and out of school as a response.

 

[wazzu31]

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what the school's Title IX office says they have. Who are the multiple witnesses? I mean, if you just have Boermeester, Katz, the person who said they saw it and the person who reported it...that's multiple witnesses. Is that what they mean by "multiple witnesses"? Or were there others in the neighborhood or other students who supposedly know or saw something?

Guess you have to wait and see about the "witnesses", but from my experience, witnesses don't mean shit when it comes to abuse, whether domestic abuse, child abuse or bullying especially when one entity is controlling the questioning of the witness.

 

[socaljim242]

I still find it hard to believe they were simply horsing around. I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe they were arguing and some mutual pushing and shoving and someone called it in. I've known women who have those kind of relationships and they really do think it's normal and say "we were just mad at the moment" but we love each other. Because if it was really playing around and your school and football career are in jeopardy you go public day one( her) and scream from then highest mountain (go on tv) and say this is all a misunderstanding . But there was quite a bit of time between word of him being in some sort of trouble and her coming out and saying nothing happened.