The Jordan/Steve Kerr Punching Incident

[broncosmitty]

I guess I'm still more put off about how Isiah is viewed historically. I never saw John Stockton put up a 25 point quarter. He was a hell of a player no doubt but in almost every instance we start the convo at counting rings and playoff success. Except when it comes to Isiah. It's just odd.

Stockton passed to Malone for 20 years. Which is smart, but he's no Zeke.

 

[broncosmitty]

He is definitely pushed aside in a way when it comes to all-time great PG's IMO

It seems like this is how most view these PG's imo. I feel like Tier 3 is much lower than Tier 2 but I would argue CP3 and Isiah Thomas are in between Tier 2 and Tier 3.

Tier 1
Magic

Tier 2
Oscar
West (PG and 2 guard but I list him as a PG)
Steph (I feel like everyone knows he will eventually be above Oscar and West...not yet though)
Stockton

Tier 3
Kidd
Nash
Thomas - should be higher
CP3 - should be higher
Frazier

Steph isn't a point guard. He's not. He bombs.
West isn't a point guard.

Who thinks Kidd is better than Thomas?


This is why I don't do Mocks anymore. That is not a consensus.

 

[broncosmitty]

Oh they were good. That era of Piston b-ball was very good.

But they were thugs and they thrived on that image.

And it was more than an image it was real.

It's a badge of honor for them I think.

And I don't begrudge them at all.

It was fun watching basketball, the worst "sport" of all, back then.

Was Laimbeer the biggest thug of them all?

 

[Wamu]

Steph isn't a point guard. He's not. He bombs.
West isn't a point guard.

Who thinks Kidd is better than Thomas?


This is why I don't do Mocks anymore. That is not a consensus.

"Steph isn't a point guard"


Okay if Steph isn't a PG that would make him a SG right? So that means Klay's a SF? Steph isn't a PG.

 

[broncosmitty]

"Steph isn't a point guard"


Okay if Steph isn't a PG that would make him a SG right? So that means Klay's a SF? Steph isn't a PG.

Steph isn't a point guard.

He bombs. I already went over this.

 

[Wamu]

Steph isn't a point guard.

He bombs. I already went over this.

Okay if he's not a PG exactly what spot on the floor does he play?

 

[pachyderm]

Was Laimbeer the biggest thug of them all?

Ha!


As far as I’m concerned yes.

But several Pistons seemed to have rough rep.

Isaiah was the move guy.


Were you alive back then? It was fun to watch.

 

[msgkings322]

You have to ask John Beilein....



KD is a bitch. Draymond has been away from home too long. His heart has grown soft in all that sunshine.

Bitch yes, thug is a different thing

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Steph isn't a point guard. He's not. He bombs.
West isn't a point guard.

Who thinks Kidd is better than Thomas?


This is why I don't do Mocks anymore. That is not a consensus.

There are definitely things within those mocks that frustrate me

Football being so focused on wideout and corner being one.

I had Barry, (everyone thinks he's overrated), rice, Marino, and Munoz on one team and received zero votes

Conversely I just won one I had no business winning lol

 

[msgkings322]

Steph isn't a point guard. He's not. He bombs.
West isn't a point guard.

Who thinks Kidd is better than Thomas?


This is why I don't do Mocks anymore. That is not a consensus.

You are showing a lot of ignorance of the sport saying that about Curry. That's dumb. Of course he's a PG. He's a very good passer, gets lots of assists, controls the offense. He has very good finishing moves around the basket too where he gets a lot of points. He's not Reddick.

He also gets a lot of shots up because everyone on the Ws passes the ball. It's a motion, passing offense with hardly any ISOs.

 

[trojanfan12]

I guess I'm still more put off about how Isiah is viewed historically. I never saw John Stockton put up a 25 point quarter. He was a hell of a player no doubt but in almost every instance we start the convo at counting rings and playoff success. Except when it comes to Isiah. It's just odd.

Because there are several who were better.

Isaiah scoring 25 points in a quarter and Stockton not doing it, doesn't make Isaiah a better player.

Kobe scored 81 in a game, MJ never did that. Kobe once outscored an entire team through 3 quarters by himself. I don't think MJ did that either. But MJ is still the GOAT and the #1 all time shooting guard.

 

[trojanfan12]

Steph isn't a point guard.

He bombs. I already went over this.

lol

Yes he is.

Every PG isn't Magic or Kidd or whoever and always looking to pass first.

Some are like Iverson or Kyrie and are "score first" point guards.

Others are like Steph and are closer to an even mix.

Saying Steph isn't a PG because he "bombs" would be like saying Kevin Love isn't a PF because he shoots 3's.

 

[Wamu]

lol

Yes he is.

Every PG isn't Magic or Kidd or whoever and always looking to pass first.

Some are like Iverson or Kyrie and are "score first" point guards.

Others are like Steph and are closer to an even mix.

Saying Steph isn't a PG because he "bombs" would be like saying Kevin Love isn't a PF because he shoots 3's.

AD shoots 3's. Guess that makes him a SG right?

 

[broncosmitty]

lol

Yes he is.

Every PG isn't Magic or Kidd or whoever and always looking to pass first.

Some are like Iverson or Kyrie and are "score first" point guards.

Others are like Steph and are closer to an even mix.

Saying Steph isn't a PG because he "bombs" would be like saying Kevin Love isn't a PF because he shoots 3's.

Nope.

 

[broncosmitty]

You are showing a lot of ignorance of the sport saying that about Curry. That's dumb. Of course he's a PG. He's a very good passer, gets lots of assists, controls the offense. He has very good finishing moves around the basket too where he gets a lot of points. He's not Reddick.

He also gets a lot of shots up because everyone on the Ws passes the ball. It's a motion, passing offense with hardly any ISOs.

He's not a PG. he's a shooter.

 

[broncosmitty]

Ha!


As far as I’m concerned yes.

But several Pistons seemed to have rough rep.

Isaiah was the move guy.


Were you alive back then? It was fun to watch.

I was.

 

[msgkings322]

He's not a PG. he's a shooter.

You're not correct. you're an idiot.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Because there are several who were better.

Isaiah scoring 25 points in a quarter and Stockton not doing it, doesn't make Isaiah a better player.

Kobe scored 81 in a game, MJ never did that. Kobe once outscored an entire team through 3 quarters by himself. I don't think MJ did that either. But MJ is still the GOAT and the #1 all time shooting guard.

It's just funny to me the double standard in the Stockton/Isiah debate

Any other situation would be easily broken with the title conversation

Isiah is 16-7 in playoff series including 7 wins over the Celtics, Lakers and bulls and two titles

John is 16-18. (Obviously he had the longer career)

And sure longevity plays into it so that's fair.

 

[thunderc]

Was Laimbeer the biggest thug of them all?

no that would be Mahorn

 

[trojanfan12]

It's just funny to me the double standard in the Stockton/Isiah debate

Any other situation would be easily broken with the title conversation

Isiah is 16-7 in playoff series including 7 wins over the Celtics, Lakers and bulls and two titles

John is 16-18. (Obviously he had the longer career)

And sure longevity plays into it so that's fair.

I agree that Isaiah doesn't get the credit he deserves. There are a few things that, fair or not, work against him.

He had a couple of times where he had the opportunity to show some leadership to prevent or squash controversy and fed into it instead.

He had his comment that if Larry Bird were black he'd be just another guy.

Walking off the court without shaking hands when the Bulls finally beat them.

He's not even really seen as the leader of the Bad Boy Pistons, Laimbeer is even though Isaiah was by far, their best player.

That hurts him when compared to Magic, Bird and MJ who were the unquestioned leaders of their teams.

It also hurts him when compared to other PG's who were the "floor generals" for their teams.