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The case for Aaron Nola being a better pitcher than Thor- Today and 10 Years from Now

Omar 382

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Noah Syndergaard is a great pitcher, and his 100 MPH fastballs can wow people. There's no doubt about that. But is he the best pitcher in the NL East? Jose Fernandez might have something to say about that; Max Scherzer might too. But I can make a case that neither will have the best careers moving forward. I could make a case that neither will have the best 2016 season. I think that might be Aaron Nola.

Nola only averages 91.3 MPH on his fastball. Thor and Fernandez average 97 and 95 MPH, respectively. Higher velocity is correlated with more swings and misses. But it might also be correlated with arm injuries. In 2002, fastballs averaged 89.6 MPH. This year, they average 92.4 MPH. Here's a chart of Tommy John surgeries by year:
byYear.jpg
Now, of course, there's the correlation does not prove causation caveat. There could be some other external factor that causes both. IP by starters are down substantially:
oimg?key=0AkTB2F40nwvIdGJYRmNRS1VPbXQ4ZWREZmZlYmxzSFE&oid=2&zx=hli1goavsmdx.png
So what else could cause it? Cut-back on PED use? Maybe. But I do think that increased velocity does cause arm injuries, even if the direct cause hasn't been clearly shown.

Fernandez has already had TJ. Thor has forearm tightness right now, and there are murmurings of Tommy John surgery. But is injury risk enough to put Nola ahead?

Nola has pitched more innings than both this year, and has a very similar ERA/FIP/xFIP. Through 12 starts, Nola’s averaged 6.5 innings per start with a 2.65 ERA and a 2.73 FIP. He’s been a top-30 starter by RA9-WAR and a top-10 starter by FIP-WAR. He’s been a top-15 starter in strikeout, walk, and ground-ball rate — arguably the three most important traits for any pitcher to possess. He is dominant pitcher, even if he doesn't throw hard. The best part of his game is his ability to get batter to take pitches in the strike zone, and swing at ones not. Here's my last graph: Aaron Nola » Graphs » WAR » Pitching | FanGraphs Baseball

Nola is a great pitcher, and I think he will be a great one for many years to come.
 

Cedrique

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Noah Syndergaard is a great pitcher, and his 100 MPH fastballs can wow people. There's no doubt about that. But is he the best pitcher in the NL East? Jose Fernandez might have something to say about that; Max Scherzer might too. But I can make a case that neither will have the best careers moving forward. I could make a case that neither will have the best 2016 season. I think that might be Aaron Nola.

Nola only averages 91.3 MPH on his fastball. Thor and Fernandez average 97 and 95 MPH, respectively. Higher velocity is correlated with more swings and misses. But it might also be correlated with arm injuries. In 2002, fastballs averaged 89.6 MPH. This year, they average 92.4 MPH. Here's a chart of Tommy John surgeries by year:
View attachment 127710
Now, of course, there's the correlation does not prove causation caveat. There could be some other external factor that causes both. IP by starters are down substantially:
View attachment 127711
So what else could cause it? Cut-back on PED use? Maybe. But I do think that increased velocity does cause arm injuries, even if the direct cause hasn't been clearly shown.

Word?



Fernandez has already had TJ. Thor has forearm tightness right now, and there are murmurings of Tommy John surgery. But is injury risk enough to put Nola ahead?

Nola has pitched more innings than both this year, and has a very similar ERA/FIP/xFIP. Through 12 starts, Nola’s averaged 6.5 innings per start with a 2.65 ERA and a 2.73 FIP. He’s been a top-30 starter by RA9-WAR and a top-10 starter by FIP-WAR. He’s been a top-15 starter in strikeout, walk, and ground-ball rate — arguably the three most important traits for any pitcher to possess. He is dominant pitcher, even if he doesn't throw hard. The best part of his game is his ability to get batter to take pitches in the strike zone, and swing at ones not. Here's my last graph: Aaron Nola » Graphs » WAR » Pitching | FanGraphs Baseball

Nola is a great pitcher, and I think he will be a great one for many years to come.
 

Cedrique

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Sorry, that post was supposed to contain my analysis, and not just quote everything from the previous post. Anyway, here's my analysis:


Word
 

Cedrique

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Seriously, 10 years is a long time. I think if Nola can pitch at this level even 6 or 7 years with no injuries he might have more value than some of those guys over that time period because one or more of them will probably get hurt at some point.
 

Omar 382

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thanks
 

Omar 382

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10 years sounds like a good flatline for those pitchers. Shit, Kyle Kendrick has been in the league that long and he blows
 

Cedrique

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Yeah, I guess I just lose interest in speculating more than 6 or 7 years because I know at that point the Phillies will either lose him to free agency or sign him to a ridiculous contract for 10 more years.
 

Omar 382

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I enjoy looking at a player's long-term value. Mainly because I like looking at older players and seeing how they measure. If my calculations are right, Nola is the next Ken Holtzman
 

DHoey

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Average fastball velocity went up 3 mph because Jamie Moyer Retired
 

Cedrique

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I enjoy looking at a player's long-term value. Mainly because I like looking at older players and seeing how they measure. If my calculations are right, Nola is the next Ken Holtzman
If that is true, we better not sign him for anything past 10 years. That's about the time Holtzman's career went south and never came back.
 

Omar 382

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If that is true, we better not sign him for anything past 10 years. That's about the time Holtzman's career went south and never came back.
Oh I didn't explain the model fully. Jews have their career automatically shortened. I got this from God. He said him and Jesus hate Jews, and anyone who is a Jew under any circumstances is cursed. That's why Jesus was a Christian
 

Omar 382

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Or agnostic, I forget- but he surely wasn't a Jew
 
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