So who thinks CJ is worth 20 mil a year?

[jaar01]

Can we officially put to bed the CJ is an "ace" talk. He's a good pitcher, but when something doesn't go his way (bad call, bad break, etc...) he mentally unwinds and loses his composure. He isn't anywhere near #1 status in this league and shouldn't be paid as such. In fact, if he demands anything over 17 mil, I let him walk.

Sure, Kinsler's AB was a huge killer, and Koji shouldn't even be on the roster anymore, but this was a winnable game against an elite pitcher who didn't have his best stuff. CJ combusted. If Texas makes the Series, I wouldn't start him game 1. He doesn't have the stones for it.

Like I said, I like him. But he's overrated in this league, and its proving out in this postseason.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

CJ is a Good Pitcher and has had Two Good Years in a Row. But He isn't a Number 1 Ace like Holliday, Kershaw or Lincecom. CJ isn't even worth as much as Jerrod Weaver of the Angels who got a 85 Million 5 Yr Contract from the Angels. But the Yankees don't care. They will over pay for anybody. CJ still will get Inwards of 20 Million on the Open Market or Close to it. He did pitch 220 Innings, Won 16 Games and had a 2.94 ERA during the regular season. Still will be tough for the Rangers to replace that production if we don't sign him.

 

[jaar01]

Oh I want the Rangers to sign him...at around 15 mil a year. Nothing more. If other teams want to stupidly give him a lot more than that, which he is clearly not worth, that's on them. And I would take Weaver or Dan Haren in a heartbeat over CJ Wilson. He's mentally weak. You can't have that leading your staff. Rangers still need a true ace. Just don't know where they get him.

 

[jaar01]

CJ is sort of the Rangers' Tony Romo. Not as good as advertised. But better than the average. Will win some games, put up some nice numbers. But when its all on the line, crunch time, melts down in his head and just can't recover.

And FWIW, unless the Rangers make the Series, I think we've seen CJ throw his last pitch in a Ranger uniform. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Lukawren24]

CJ is sort of the Rangers' Tony Romo. Not as good as advertised. But better than the average. Will win some games, put up some nice numbers. But when its all on the line, crunch time, melts down in his head and just can't recover.

And FWIW, unless the Rangers make the Series, I think we've seen CJ throw his last pitch in a Ranger uniform. Just a gut feeling.

So you are saying you think we will lose this series? Up 3-2 with 2 home games left?

 

[jaar01]

No. I think we will win this series and move on. I merely said that if we drop games 6 and 7 at home (which I don't believe we will), then CJ may not throw another pitch for Texas, because I don't think he is re-signing here in the offseason. Some team will throw ridiculous money at him(especially being a lefty) and he'll sign elsewhere. Still hope we keep him though, for no more than 15 mil a year.

 

[Ginger]

I don't think CJ is a classic ace, yet. But the beauty of sport is that people who work hard and strive for excellence tend to improve every year. I remember when CJ got called up from AA and struggled because he just didn't have enough minor league experience due to those catastrophic injuries. Then he got pushed into the pen and improved every year.

CJ is a very, very good pitcher and people do underrate him a bit. I don't think he is worth 20 million a year but I don't think anyone is going to offer him that much anyway so that point is moot. But in the very near future I wouldn't be surprised if he became that "true" ace. Hell, his numbers are there anyway. 7th in ERA, 6th in strikeouts, 10th in innings pitched, heck even his whip is a perfectly acceptable 1.19 which ranked 16th.

Frankly, those are some damned good numbers and when you account for the fact that the vast majority of the guys who are ahead of him play in extreme pitchers parks then you have to realize that those are just eye popping numbers. Heck, for all intents and purposes he really is an ace. His numbers certainly suggest as such.

 

[TrinDaddy]

I think Ryan makes a push at C.C. while making a respectable offer to CJ and someone like Buehrle. He wants a work horse pitcher or two who can make consistent quality starts.

 

[scotsman1948]

I think Ryan makes a push at C.C. while making a respectable offer to CJ and someone like Buehrle. He wants a work horse pitcher or two who can make consistent quality starts.

have to agree. Ryan wants CJ back but he also wants to add someone like CC or Buehrle especially after the failure of the starters (except for CJ yesterday) to give the team a solid 6 innings during the playoffs

 

[Al Falfa]

have to agree. Ryan wants CJ back but he also wants to add someone like CC or Buehrle especially after the failure of the starters (except for CJ yesterday) to give the team a solid 6 innings during the playoffs

Not sure where you get your information about Ryan wanting Wilson back, but it has always been curious to me that neither Nolan or Daniels have ever approached CJ or his rep about a long term contract before now. Now I think we have seen why they waited. CJ has stunk up the playoffs and if they win a trip to the WS the the Rangers will not have HFA because of his penchant for not producing on the big stage.

Last month you were saying offer him a million more than anybody else and keep him at all costs. What do you think now?

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

Not sure where you get your information about Ryan wanting Wilson back, but it has always been curious to me that neither Nolan or Daniels have ever approached CJ or his rep about a long term contract before now. Now I think we have seen why they waited. CJ has stunk up the playoffs and if they win a trip to the WS the the Rangers will not have HFA because of his penchant for not producing on the big stage.

Last month you were saying offer him a million more than anybody else and keep him at all costs. What do you think now?

Define "before now"? Are you talking about after last season? (his first year as a starter).... Or are you referring to during this past season? (when JD came out and stated they wouldnt talk a contract during the season...b/c they didnt want to be a distraction)

Or do you mean while he was still a reliever......? (and at times...a head case)


I guess I just answered why they haven't discussed a long term contract with him..."before now"

 

[fordman84]

I think Ryan makes a push at C.C. while making a respectable offer to CJ and someone like Buehrle. He wants a work horse pitcher or two who can make consistent quality starts.

I think this will be the norm. Texas wants to get a solid ace and rotation, and knows that to get them outside of FA will cost a lot more in terms of prospects. We have a ton of TV money to spend, and they will do so on FA pitchers. If you are a FA pitcher, talk to Texas...we are willing to spend.

 

[Al Falfa]

Define "before now"? Are you talking about after last season? (his first year as a starter).... Or are you referring to during this past season? (when JD came out and stated they wouldnt talk a contract during the season...b/c they didnt want to be a distraction)

Or do you mean while he was still a reliever......? (and at times...a head case)


I guess I just answered why they haven't discussed a long term contract with him..."before now"

From November 2010 to April 2011.

 

[1502tuley]

I think the Rangers will have to decide what 16 wins in the regular season is worth. I say anything over $16M a year would be too much (wow $1M per win). CJ has proven himself as a rock solid starter in the regular season. Unfortunately, he has also proven himself (at least through the last two seasons) as unreliable in the post-season. I like CJ, but I like him before October. The Rangers need to get CC, or something similar to him so that they will have at least one playoff workhouse that they can ride in the PO's. To do that they will likely not be able to offer CJ what NY will likely offer him. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I fear I'm not.

 

[fordman84]

I'd like to see us go after CJ, CC (if he opts out), Buerhle, and Chris Young. Young should be looked at as another reclamation that Maddux could work on. Should be much cheaper, and another arm to add to the rotation or long reliever.

 

[Al Falfa]

I'd like to see us go after CJ, CC (if he opts out), Buerhle, and Chris Young. Young should be looked at as another reclamation that Maddux could work on. Should be much cheaper, and another arm to add to the rotation or long reliever.

If they are going to pay out big money to a pitcher, I'd rather it be CC than CJ. For the life of me I can't see paying CJ much more than half of what some are talking about. If they thought he was going to turn into a Kenny Rogers then he'd be worth the extra $$. I think CJ's a good pitcher that will flourish in the AL West, but I also think there's more hype than substance when it comes to him being a big time pitcher. JMO

 

[scotsman1948]

From November 2010 to April 2011.

they said they wanted to wait until he had another year of starting before they talked about a contract like someone said before but you aren't satisfied with that. Ryan and JD both said that they would wait until the off-season to sit down with CJ and his agent about a long term deal.

 

[scotsman1948]

I think the Rangers will have to decide what 16 wins in the regular season is worth. I say anything over $16M a year would be too much (wow $1M per win). CJ has proven himself as a rock solid starter in the regular season. Unfortunately, he has also proven himself (at least through the last two seasons) as unreliable in the post-season. I like CJ, but I like him before October. The Rangers need to get CC, or something similar to him so that they will have at least one playoff workhouse that they can ride in the PO's. To do that they will likely not be able to offer CJ what NY will likely offer him. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I fear I'm not.

considering that only 3 pitchers had a better total of wins in the AL than CJ in the regular season. and you have to win in the regular season before you get to the post-season. and that he is listed as the #2 free-agent pitcher behind CC who hasn't opted out yet you have to expect that he is going to get at least 5 years and 85-90M

 

[Al Falfa]

they said they wanted to wait until he had another year of starting before they talked about a contract like someone said before but you aren't satisfied with that. Ryan and JD both said that they would wait until the off-season to sit down with CJ and his agent about a long term deal.

What do you mean I'm not satisfied with that?

 

[scotsman1948]

What do you mean I'm not satisfied with that?

when they answered you you said "from November 2010 to April 2011.