Scherzer/Kluber win Cy Young

[The Q]

Not outrageous by any means but the Porcello - Verlander show down from 2016 was certainly controversial.

After 2011 i will never feel sorry for Verlander about any award.

 

[The Q]

And Scherzer's annuity still runs out 7 years before Bobby Bonilla's.

It's a little more front loaded....lol

Bonilla gets like a mil a year doesn't he? Scherz gets 15 mil.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The MVP award was.

"Outrageous?" Why?

 

[PolarVortex]

True that.

Also not built for the postseason: Richard Sherman's achilles tendon.

Sherman has been overrated for a couple years now. Living off of a reputation that he can no longer live up to. Most NFL QBs are still afraid of him but the younger ones come after him and they've been winning a few.

 

[soxfan1468927]

The MVP award was.

I figured that was what you were talking about. I disagree. I thought he deserved it

 

[soxfan1468927]

It's a little more front loaded....lol

Bonilla gets like a mil a year doesn't he? Scherz gets 15 mil.

Yeah, but Bonilla cashed in at the end of his deal. He turned $5.9 million into $1 million/year for 30 years or so.

 

[The Q]

I figured that was what you were talking about. I disagree. I thought he deserved it

JV had a 6.4 WAR

Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR

to put in context just how good Ellsbury was that year, that's better than any of Trout's last 4 seasons. And 2016 is the only one that is even remotely close.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

JV had a 6.4 WAR

Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR

to put in context just how good Ellsbury was that year, that's better than any of Trout's last 4 seasons. And 2016 is the only one that is even remotely close.

ESPN shows Ellsbury's WAR (a questionable stat anyway) in 2011 as 8.0, a half point behind Ben F Zobrist.

They've got Verlander at 8.3 WAR.

Why do I get the feeling you'll not be stumping for Zobrist?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

to put in context just how good Ellsbury was that year, that's better than any of Trout's last 4 seasons.

Trout 2016 - 10.6 WAR
Trout 2015 - 9.4 WAR

I'm pretty sure 10.6 and 9.4 are both larger than 8.0.

 

[soxfan1468927]

JV had a 6.4 WAR

Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR

to put in context just how good Ellsbury was that year, that's better than any of Trout's last 4 seasons. And 2016 is the only one that is even remotely close.

You are using fWAR as opposed to bWAR, where Verlander was higher. fWAR makes the argument that Verlander was just as valuable in 2011 than 2010, when he threw 27 fewer innings and had an ERA a run higher. Even though Verlander also had a higher K/9 and lower BB/9 in 2011

 

[soxfan1468927]

Trout 2016 - 10.6 WAR
Trout 2015 - 9.4 WAR

I'm pretty sure 10.6 and 9.4 are both larger than 8.0.

He's talking fangraphs

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

He's talking fangraphs

Am I the only one that discredits WAR for not having a standardized formula?

I'm not saying either formula is garbage, it's useful to consider, but I sure as shit wouldn't use WAR to make a definitive statement like "Ellsbury's 2011 campaign was better than both of Trout's MVP seasons." That seems like madness to me.

Then again, The Q account is shared by multiple users and at least one of them is a muppet.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

fWAR makes the argument that Verlander was just as valuable in 2011 than 2010, when he threw 27 fewer innings and had an ERA a run higher.

Boy, that right there has me thinking that fWAR might be garbage.

 

[The Q]

You are using fWAR as opposed to bWAR, where Verlander was higher. fWAR makes the argument that Verlander was just as valuable in 2011 than 2010, when he threw 27 fewer innings and had an ERA a run higher. Even though Verlander also had a higher K/9 and lower BB/9 in 2011

Looks like Ellsbury was high on BR as well, 8.5 to 8.4.

Win Probability Added: Ellsbury wins 6.2 to 5.0.

The guy wins across the board.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Looks like Ellsbury was high on BR as well, 8.5 to 8.4.

Win Probability Added: Ellsbury wins 6.2 to 5.0.

The guy wins across the board.

Not sure where you got 8.5 since BR has him at 8.1.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Am I the only one that discredits WAR for not having a standardized formula?

I'm not saying either formula is garbage, it's useful to consider, but I sure as shit wouldn't use WAR to make a definitive statement like "Ellsbury's 2011 campaign was better than both of Trout's MVP seasons." That seems like madness to me.

Then again, The Q account is shared by multiple users and at least one of them is a muppet.

Just look at bWAR and fWAR as two different stats.

 

[The Q]

Not sure where you got 8.5 since BR has him at 8.1.

Hmm, maybe looked at the wrong column.

Even if true, Ellsbury blows him away so badly in the better WAR and WPA that it was just an indefensible decision.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Hmm, maybe looked at the wrong column.

Even if true, Ellsbury blows him away so badly in the better WAR and WPA that it was just an indefensible decision.

Well what you consider to be the better WAR. Based on the fact it fits your argument.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Just look at bWAR and fWAR as two different stats.

Nah.

I confirmed what you said that fWAR says that Verlander's '10 season was just as good as his '11. What's worse is that it says his '12 was better than both, and that his '09 BLOWS them all away.

I'm not looking at that garbage anymore.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Not sure where you got 8.5 since BR has him at 8.1.

His trusted assistant gave him the figures. . .

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