POLL} The Best Overall Hitter In The Past 30 Years ?......

[mrwallace2ku]

KGjr.

sweet swing, effortless.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Career ops and ops+
1.051 182 Bonds
.996 154 Ramirez
.958 154 Cabrera
.959 155 Pujols
.931 141 Ortiz
.907 136 Griffey Jr.
.847 132 Gwynn

The top 2 cheated, I don't count them.
I voted for Cabrera, but Pujois and Griffey are right there.
As others have said, if Griffey used PEDs he would have been a fucking cartoon figure, just super human.

 

[calsnowskier]

The top 2 cheated, I don't count them.
I voted for Cabrera, but Pujois and Griffey are right there.
As others have said, if Griffey used PEDs he would have been a fucking cartoon figure, just super human.

Cheated?

What rule did Bonds break?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

So you try to exclude PED users with a "some cheating POS" option, but people can vote for Manny Ramirez(who was twice suspended for PED use) and David Ortiz?

Go figure.

The answer is Barry Bonds.

This guy gets it.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I disagree. Players like Aaron, Griffey and Thome were cheated and regardless of asterisk they will never quite be considered as highly as they should be. Aaron and Griffey in particular, Aaron the #1 HR hitter ever and Griffey the best since 1975.
I never put Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod or the other clear cheaters on my lists.

Griffey was juiced to the gills.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Talk about some crap argument.

1. Mays played 2 more seasons in the tee it up 50s? 155 more games when he was 20/21. Counting 1952 as 1 season when he played 34 games is just stupid. Take out those 2 seasons and his OPS his higher, not lower.

2. Take out Aaron's extra seasons at the end of his career played in the "extension of the dead ball era" and take out Mays extra 155 games in the "tee it up 50s" and his OPS is still lower than Mays.

3. What does a comparison between the two players have to do with all-time OPS?

4. Would you like a RFer or CFer with equal offensive numbers?

5. Also this ignores the 100 extra bases Mays had stealing bags compared to Aaron stealing bags. If you add those in to the slugging percentage and OBP, while taking out the caught stealing of both players, the OPS difference is larger. Goes up to .954 for Mays and .937 for Aaron.

BS. At the end of Aaron's rookie season in 1954 he had 468 at bats, Mays already had 1156 at bats.
Even so Aaron's 790 more total bases far more than makes up for Mays' very small advantage in OPS.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

That is easy to explain.
First off neither player is near the top in career OPS, that's because both played the entire decade of the second dead ball era of the 60s, I don't think any player who did so is near the top in OPS. Mays has a .941 OPS and Aaron's is .929. The difference is because Mays played 2 more seasons in the tee it up 50s and Aaron played 3 more years in the early/mid70s which was an extension of the dead ball 60s.
If they had played in the 40s and 50s I expect both would be near the top.

I checked, no player from the 1960s has a higher OPS than either Mays or Aaron, smoke on that.

You're a dipshit.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

BS. At the end of Aaron's rookie season in 1954 he had 468 at bats, Mays already had 1156 at bats.
Even so Aaron's 790 more total bases far more than makes up for Mays' very small advantage in OPS.

If you add 13%, which is how many more total bases Aaron had to his OPS it would be 1050.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

This guy gets it.

Bonds was a fraud and a bitch.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Bonds was a fraud and a bitch.

And you're a talking meatball.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Career ops and ops+
1.051 182 Bonds
.996 154 Ramirez
.958 154 Cabrera
.959 155 Pujols
.931 141 Ortiz
.907 136 Griffey Jr.
.847 132 Gwynn

You forgot Chipper.

141 OPS+ ties him with Ortiz, but I'm just gonna assume your racism against white people is why he was left off.

 

[soxfan1468927]

BS. At the end of Aaron's rookie season in 1954 he had 468 at bats, Mays already had 1156 at bats.
Even so Aaron's 790 more total bases far more than makes up for Mays' very small advantage in OPS.

What's BS? You said Mays had 2 extra seasons in the "tee it up 50s" when he really only had 155 games. So 1 extra season. And if you take those 155 games out, his OPS goes up, not down.

Nice job ignoring every other stat.

 

[soxfan1468927]

If you add 13%, which is how many more total bases Aaron had to his OPS it would be 1050.

Wait, so if you add the difference in total bases to Aaron's OPS his OPS goes up? SHOCKING that if you count those extra bases twice (since, you know, total bases is part of the OPS equation) they would go up. That's quite the hot take right there. If you add total bases and pretend that he accomplished that in 0 at bats, his OPS would go up. Do you work in an MLB front office? Because that is some brilliant stuff.

 

[black francis]

"Jeter"
-dirtdirtdirt

 

[soxfan1468927]

The top 2 cheated, I don't count them.
I voted for Cabrera, but Pujois and Griffey are right there.
As others have said, if Griffey used PEDs he would have been a fucking cartoon figure, just super human.

So can you tell me the rule that Bonds broke, and the punishment for that rule?

 

[AlpacaWine]

The real answer is Barry Bonds. Not a lot of sense leaving him off but putting Ortiz, Griffey or Manny on.


But of all the guys you listed, Pujols is my pick.

 

[soxfan1468927]

The real answer is Barry Bonds. Not a lot of sense leaving him off but putting Ortiz, Griffey or Manny on.


But of all the guys you listed, Pujols is my pick.

Out of the guys listed, I think Pujols, Thomas, Manny, and Cabrera are really close.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I'm going with the biased Frank Thomas vote.

Out of the guys listed, I don't think that's really a crazy thing to suggest. He was either 1 or 2 in OPS+ in 7 seasons (consecutively). Looking at the list and ranking them by how many times they did that (not consecutive, just overall):

Pujols: 7
Manny: 5
Cabrera: 5
Jones: 3
Thome: 2
Griffey: 1
Ortiz: 1

I said in another post that I think Thomas, Pujols, Manny, and Cabrera are very close.

But I still take Bonds even though he isn't listed. Who accomplished that 7 times from 1990-1998 and led the league 9 times, something only Cobb, Hornsby, and Ruth did more.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Talk about some crap argument.

1. Mays played 2 more seasons in the tee it up 50s? 155 more games when he was 20/21. Counting 1952 as 1 season when he played 34 games is just stupid. Take out those 2 seasons and his OPS his higher, not lower.

2. Take out Aaron's extra seasons at the end of his career played in the "extension of the dead ball era" and take out Mays extra 155 games in the "tee it up 50s" and his OPS is still lower than Mays.

3. What does a comparison between the two players have to do with all-time OPS?

4. Would you like a RFer or CFer with equal offensive numbers?

5. Also this ignores the 100 extra bases Mays had stealing bags compared to Aaron stealing bags. If you add those in to the slugging percentage and OBP, while taking out the caught stealing of both players, the OPS difference is larger. Goes up to .954 for Mays and .937 for Aaron.

This discussion is about "hitters" though, not "position players" or "offensive performers" (I wasn't sure what expression to use there, sounds more like Andrew Dice Clay or something hahaha). Those general points aren't wrong, they just don't seem to pertain to this argument.

 

[soxfan1468927]

This discussion is about "hitters" though, not "position players" or "offensive performers" (I wasn't sure what expression to use there, sounds more like Andrew Dice Clay or something hahaha). Those general points aren't wrong, they just don't seem to pertain to this argument.

True, it does however, stem from a different argument that was being made in another thread.