POLL} The Best Overall Hitter In The Past 30 Years ?......

[DirtDirtDirt]

Pretty sure the Angels have won as many division titles as they have finished in last since he got there. I could be wrong.

Probably right, but they are trending way way down, with a farm system that ranks near the bottom.....Now maybe they go crazy in next seasons amazing free agent class, thats the only way I see a quick turnaround

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I know the Angels need to sell tickets, but do you think they would be wise to trade Trout for just an insane package of high end prospects, and start rebuilding that organization?

Interesting thought. From an on-field perspective, it could make some sense. Their team isn't good, and their farm system is shit. On the other hand, if I'm the owner, I'd be scared as hell to have a rookie GM in charge of trading away a potential once in a lifetime player.

The selling tickets is also a big consideration. As a fan of a team that traded away back-to-back Cy Young winners and a crowd favorite (V-Mart), I can tell you that trading away Trout would decimate that fanbase for quite some time. The casual fan doesn't think about the fact that moving CC & Lee made sense from a long-term standpoint, they just think "ownership doesn't care about winning."

Finally -- not that it couldn't be overcome -- Trout has full no-trade protection.

Final answer: if I were Moreno, I'd probably look to move him after this season or next.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I made a very complete case for Aaron.
What would you add to it ?

It's not about what I would add, it's about what I would subtract. All the fluff, throw out the crap about Mays having an advantage from playing 155 games in the 50s, it's a crap argument and didn't give Mays an advantage. Throw out the team-dependent stats, you can't argue they have no value and then use them in an argument. You were right to dismiss them before. I would also throw out the overall statistics, focus on their primes, length of primes, isolated statistics, and any additional seasons that contributed to their overall value.

Mays had an 18-year prime from 1954-1971 and had a 159 wRC+ and .415 wOBA over 2683 games.

Aaron had a 19-year prime from 1955-1973 and had a 159 wRC+ and .412 wOBA over 2842 games.

So similar hitting value over 159 extra games. There ya go, simple argument.

 

[broncosmitty]

I watched the Yankees rebuild their entire farm system on the strength of trading 2 relief pitchers...Went from like 18 or 19th ranked to 1 or 2

Cant imagine what trading Trout can bring back.....

I believe in the idea of building around a guy like that, but looking at their farm system and whats in place right now, an aggressive estimate when the Angels will be ready to contend again, Trout should be about 32 years old

Is there an award for how minor league systems are ranked? A team could trade its entire farm system. There won't be another Trout in there.

They're a .500 ball club, baseball doesn't take 7 years to rebuild. Trading away the best player in the game won't make it faster. Smart spending would help.

The Yankees traded old dudes and relievers, that made sense. Especially when they know they can just over spend to bring them back anyway.

Cabrera, Gretzky, Ruth come to mind. All bad decisions.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Interesting thought. From an on-field perspective, it could make some sense. Their team isn't good, and their farm system is shit. On the other hand, if I'm the owner, I'd be scared as hell to have a rookie GM in charge of trading away a potential once in a lifetime player.

The selling tickets is also a big consideration. As a fan of a team that traded away back-to-back Cy Young winners and a crowd favorite (V-Mart), I can tell you that trading away Trout would decimate that fanbase for quite some time. The casual fan doesn't think about the fact that moving CC & Lee made sense from a long-term standpoint, they just think "ownership doesn't care about winning."

Finally -- not that it couldn't be overcome -- Trout has full no-trade protection.

Final answer: if I were Moreno, I'd probably look to move him after this season or next.

Trading a truly great and very young player had better be for the mother load. Who has that kind of talent to move ? It'd take proven big league talent and top prospects if Angels' management know how to play their hand.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

When has trading a great young player ever been a good idea?

You build around a player, there's no reason to deal him.

Their payroll is relatively low, so they could get into the FA market, but their farm system ranks as arguably the worst in baseball. They've only got Trout for three more seasons - I'm not sure they have enough time to build around him with what they have in the cupboards.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Interesting thought. From an on-field perspective, it could make some sense. Their team isn't good, and their farm system is shit. On the other hand, if I'm the owner, I'd be scared as hell to have a rookie GM in charge of trading away a potential once in a lifetime player.

The selling tickets is also a big consideration. As a fan of a team that traded away back-to-back Cy Young winners and a crowd favorite (V-Mart), I can tell you that trading away Trout would decimate that fanbase for quite some time. The casual fan doesn't think about the fact that moving CC & Lee made sense from a long-term standpoint, they just think "ownership doesn't care about winning."

Finally -- not that it couldn't be overcome -- Trout has full no-trade protection.

Final answer: if I were Moreno, I'd probably look to move him after this season or next.

Agreed on all points, they would definitely have to deal with the fan backlash for a minimum or one or 2 seasons.....Thats why it probably never happens.......Maybe they chase Machado and Bryce or Keuchel, etc. next offseason....If they dont, I cant imagine how Trout isnt playing most of his prime years for a perennial doormat

 

[BallsOfFurry]

It's not about what I would add, it's about what I would subtract. All the fluff, throw out the crap about Mays having an advantage from playing 155 games in the 50s, it's a crap argument and didn't give Mays an advantage. Throw out the team-dependent stats, you can't argue they have no value and then use them in an argument. You were right to dismiss them before. I would also throw out the overall statistics, focus on their primes, length of primes, isolated statistics, and any additional seasons that contributed to their overall value.

Mays had an 18-year prime from 1954-1971 and had a 159 wRC+ and .415 wOBA over 2683 games.

Aaron had a 19-year prime from 1955-1973 and had a 159 wRC+ and .412 wOBA over 2842 games.

So similar hitting value over 159 extra games. There ya go, simple argument.

It isn't a crap argument, and I expect readers to have the ability to follow reasoning, I won't baby sit.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Trading a truly great and very young player had better be for the mother load. Who has that kind of talent to move ? It'd take proven big league talent and top prospects if Angels' management know how to play their hand.

It would be the motherload.........Im not trying to bring him to the Yankees, but just as an example, they would have to probably start with Sanchez/Judge AND Gleyber Torres....I would never do that, but the Angels would be asking for something like that

This isnt the NBA, having one or 2 great stars in MLB doesnt automatically thrust you into contention

 

[broncosmitty]

Their payroll is relatively low, so they could get into the FA market, but their farm system ranks as arguably the worst in baseball. They've only got Trout for three more seasons - I'm not sure they have enough time to build around him with what they have in the cupboards.

You say only three more years like that isn't a long time.


No team is sitting on can't miss prospects to give in return. Because they don't exist.

 

[soxfan1468927]

It isn't a crap argument, and I expect readers to have the ability to follow reasoning, I won't baby sit.

Did you just stop there and ignore everything else?

It absolutely is a crap argument, you said the OPS difference was because Mays had two extra seasons in the "tee it up 50s" when in reality he had 155 extra games (so 1 season worth), and his OPS goes UP, not DOWN, if you take out those years.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Is there an award for how minor league systems are ranked? A team could trade its entire farm system. There won't be another Trout in there.

Reasonable point. There won't be another Trout, but could there be a handful of high-end MLB players? Potentially. It's always a risk to trade away proven MLB talent for prospects and that risk is magnified when we're talking about a 25yo who is being compared to the best the game has ever seen.

I think Dirt's point is that it's unlikely that they'll be competing while he's on the roster, and he won't be on the roster forever.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Trading a truly great and very young player had better be for the mother load. Who has that kind of talent to move ?

The Yankees. Who could also afford him long term and he would likely waive his no trade protection for.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Reasonable point. There won't be another Trout, but could there be a handful of high-end MLB players? Potentially. It's always a risk to trade away proven MLB talent for prospects and that risk is magnified when we're talking about a 25yo who is being compared to the best the game has ever seen.

I think Dirt's point is that it's unlikely that they'll be competing while he's on the roster, and he won't be on the roster forever.

One superstar, even possibly the greatest we may ever see, does nothing on a terrible roster, but sell tickets

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

The Yankees. Who could also afford him long term and he would likely waive his no trade protection for.

I wouldnt even do it, and dont think Cashman would, for what it would cost

But yes, they would have the package to do it

I dont know if any team would do it/or have the means to, I just think the Angels would be wise to kick the tires

 

[broncosmitty]

The Angels won the division two years ago.





They've been under .500 twice in the last 13 years. Let's pump the breaks on the awful
State of their franchise for a second. Keep in mind, they have the best player in the game under contract and he most likely hasn't peaked.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Agreed on all points, they would definitely have to deal with the fan backlash for a minimum or one or 2 seasons.....Thats why it probably never happens.......Maybe they chase Machado and Bryce or Keuchel, etc. next offseason....If they dont, I cant imagine how Trout isnt playing most of his prime years for a perennial doormat

I think there're only handful of teams that will be able to afford Harper and the Angels aren't one of them - particularly with Trout and Pujols on the books. They'd very possibly be spending over $100MM on those three in 2019.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

The Angels won the division two years ago.





They've been under .500 twice in the last 13 years. Let's pump the breaks on the awful
State of their franchise for a second. Keep in mind, they have the best player in the game under contract and he most likely hasn't peaked.

Its the direction they are heading in, not where they have been, that looks so bleak

Nothing in the farm system, an aging shell of a first basemen is easily their 2nd best player

 

[broncosmitty]

One superstar, even possibly the greatest we may ever see, does nothing on a terrible roster, but sell tickets

I just rolled my eyes and thought of what I might name a Christmas Cactus.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I just rolled my eyes and thought of what I might name a Christmas Cactus.

I dont know what that mean, but it made me laugh