politics thread

[Sharkinva]

I can’t believe I have to explain it to you. It is a group of people where race is a requirement for membership with the express purpose of improving the lives of one group of people, based on race, at the expense of another group of people, based on race.

Wow...they even have a mission statement and tokens.

But do tell how it isn’t racist.

See I think your real issue here is that you believe the only way to improve the lot of minorities is at the expense of whites. That some how its racist to want true equality because it means YOU might have to give something up. I get it. But again I will point out, none of these groups YOU find racist would be needed if not for a system of racism against minorities.

SO at the end of the day what is truly racist is the idea that the only way for minorities to improve, is for the white man to be some how taken advantage of.

 

[Sharkinva]

Its also rather interesting that you find any group or program that has the intent of ending racism against minorities as automatically racist against whites.

 

[gkekoa]

Definition of disenfranchise


transitive verb

: to deprive of a franchise, of a legal right, or of some privilege or immunity especially : to deprive of the right to votedisenfranchising the poor and elderly

Other Words from disenfranch

Definition of DISENFRANCHISE


Actually its a worse form of cheating because it revolves around depriving legal voters of their ability to vote simply because they might vote against your party or platform.

In what way is anybody being denied the right to vote?

It is no worse than allowing illegal votes. An illegal vote cancels mine.

 

[gkekoa]

See I think your real issue here is that you believe the only way to improve the lot of minorities is at the expense of whites. That some how its racist to want true equality because it means YOU might have to give something up. I get it. But again I will point out, none of these groups YOU find racist would be needed if not for a system of racism against minorities.

SO at the end of the day what is truly racist is the idea that the only way for minorities to improve, is for the white man to be some how taken advantage of.

Prove the system is racist. You can’t point at outcomes because not all things are equal. People are all different. Show me the law or statute that is actually designed to hold black people down.

Any law that is specifically designed to assist one race is unConstitutional because it inherently denies others an equal right.

If you can tell me that no white person has been denied a job they were better qualified for, interviewed better, and was better suited for than a minority candidate, then you have a point. Now, before you mention it, I am sure it has helped more black people get an opportunity; however, we cannot prove the motivation for a black person not getting a job is racism. We can suspect it. There is no law denying or favoring a white person in getting a job.

As for my motivation, it is strictly freedom. I personally believe if a business owner wants to discriminate, in a free society, they should be allowed. I have no dog in the hunt. I won’t lose my job because of affirmative action. My son will be protected by affirmative action, as he is a minority. My wife, if she chooses to go back to work, would be protected by affirmative action. You see...no personal bias.

When my son was born, my wife asked me if we should just put Caucasian on my son’s birth certificate. I said no...put Pacific Islander. I told her, while I disagree with the idea of benefits based on race, I want to give my son every advantage possible. I don’t blame people...I blame the system.

Remember...hate breeds discontent.

 

[Sharkinva]

In what way is anybody being denied the right to vote?

It is no worse than allowing illegal votes. An illegal vote cancels mine.

If you remove someone from the voting rolls that was legally able to vote, you deny that person the right to vote. If you seek to block voter registrations of legal voters, you deny those people the right to vote.

As for illegal votes, why is it the assumption of Republicans that every illegal vote (if they vote illegally) will automatically be against the republican platform and somehow cancel out YOUR vote?? If the platform were so good, right and fair to everyone, I would think Republicans would not be so afraid of more votes because people regardless of race or "legal" status would vote for the better platform.

Or is that too logical?

 

[gkekoa]

Its also rather interesting that you find any group or program that has the intent of ending racism against minorities as automatically racist against whites.

Except, these programs aren’t aimed at ending racism. Quite the contrary. These programs sow the seed of racism, as they are inherently racist.

These programs are designed to level the playing field for a perceived injustice. It is a perceived injustice because outcome is incredibly nuanced.

 

[gkekoa]

If you remove someone from the voting rolls that was legally able to vote, you deny that person the right to vote. If you seek to block voter registrations of legal voters, you deny those people the right to vote.

As for illegal votes, why is it the assumption of Republicans that every illegal vote (if they vote illegally) will automatically be against the republican platform and somehow cancel out YOUR vote?? If the platform were so good, right and fair to everyone, I would think Republicans would not be so afraid of more votes because people regardless of race or "legal" status would vote for the better platform.

Or is that too logical?

I agree...if you remove somebody from the voting rolls, meaning they did their part and the system screwed it up, that is wrong.

What do you mean by “blocking voter registration?” If you mean, you simply don’t allow them to vote because they didn’t do the exact same thing required from all other voters, then I agree.

Most illegal votes, nearly all, will be in favor of democrats. Please...people don’t vote on platform...they vote on gimmies.

 

[Sharkinva]

Prove the system is racist. You can’t point at outcomes because not all things are equal. People are all different. Show me the law or statute that is actually designed to hold black people down.

The system was built on racism. For over two hundred years it thrived on racism. As such, the proof should not have to be that racism still exists, but that it no longer exists. You dont go to a doctor and say, prove cancer still exists, you ask for proof that you are no longer sick. See the difference??

Any law that is specifically designed to assist one race is unConstitutional because it inherently denies others an equal right.

A law that says a specific group MUST be afforded an opportunity, does not automatically deny that opportunity from others. That would be like saying laws that gave women and minorities the right to vote stripped white men of the right to vote.

Remember...hate breeds discontent.

And fear is usually what breeds hate.

 

[Sharkinva]

What do you mean by “blocking voter registration?” If you mean, you simply don’t allow them to vote because they didn’t do the exact same thing required from all other voters, then I agree.

Come on dude, the Sec of State in Georgia held up 53,000 registrations on his little exact match scheme. Meaning if every detail on every state database didnt match, you were not allowed to register to vote. He would look at DL vs voter registration, if the DL had a middle initial, but the person left that out on their voter registration form, he denied the voter registration.

In ND, they dropped a new law requiring street addresses knowing full well 90% of the Native Americans live on Reservations and thus had PO boxes and no street address. This required them to have to go through more red tape to have their voting rights reinstated.

Most illegal votes, nearly all, will be in favor of democrats. Please...people don’t vote on platform...they vote on gimmies.

Again, give em a better platform than the so called gimmies

 

[gkekoa]

The system was built on racism. For over two hundred years it thrived on racism. As such, the proof should not have to be that racism still exists, but that it no longer exists. You dont go to a doctor and say, prove cancer still exists, you ask for proof that you are no longer sick. See the difference??

A law that says a specific group MUST be afforded an opportunity, does not automatically deny that opportunity from others. That would be like saying laws that gave women and minorities the right to vote stripped white men of the right to vote.

And fear is usually what breeds hate.

Racism has existed since the dawn of time by all people on the Earth. Whether it is skin tone, sex, gender, place of birth, there has always been a difference in the way people are treated. It is inherently human, or animal, to align yourself with what is familiar. Nobody has said racism doesn’t exist. Not everything you claim to be racist is because you don’t know another individual’s motivation. That is a fact.

If that is what the law stated, then you would be right. That isn’t what the law stated. There have been quotas established so it is no longer based on merit.

Giving women and minorities the right to vote took nothing away from white men. It added to the voting pool.

Come on dude, the Sec of State in Georgia held up 53,000 registrations on his little exact match scheme. Meaning if every detail on every state database didnt match, you were not allowed to register to vote. He would look at DL vs voter registration, if the DL had a middle initial, but the person left that out on their voter registration form, he denied the voter registration.

In ND, they dropped a new law requiring street addresses knowing full well 90% of the Native Americans live on Reservations and thus had PO boxes and no street address. This required them to have to go through more red tape to have their voting rights reinstated.

Again, give em a better platform than the so called gimmies

Red tape isn’t denial. Rules are not a denial. Now, the GA thing is total bullshit, unless it was already written that way.

A better platform than “I will hook you up?” The average person is far to selfish to care about the platforms. They want the hook up. Why do you think cities run into the ground by democrats are still run by democrats? They keep on dangling a carrot.

Again...we are the sum of our choices in life. Take your bias out of the equation. Take perception out of the equation. Deal in facts. Deal in actual freedom and equality.

 

[Sharkinva]

Racism has existed since the dawn of time by all people on the Earth. Whether it is skin tone, sex, gender, place of birth, there has always been a difference in the way people are treated. It is inherently human, or animal, to align yourself with what is familiar. Nobody has said racism doesn’t exist. Not everything you claim to be racist is because you don’t know another individual’s motivation. That is a fact.

I think i see the disconnect here. You are assuming racism has always existed. Prejudice has always been around. And most of us have some form of it. Racism Is different in that it is the assumption that one race is superior to another and basing your hate on the assumption that your race is superior to another race. Prejudice is usually passive in nature, in that you just avoid those things or people you are not fond of. Racism is active in that you attempt to harm, belittle or in other ways get rid of those you find inferior.

Giving women and minorities the right to vote took nothing away from white men. It added to the voting pool.

It most certainly did take something away from white men. Their ability to rule with impunity. And some are still pissed about that. IF that were truly the case, you wouldnt see primarily white men taking concerted efforts to minimize the women and minority vote across this country.

Red tape isn’t denial. Rules are not a denial. Now, the GA thing is total bullshit, unless it was already written that way.

Red tape as you put it is a direct attempt to prevent or limit the voter pool. The Exact match law Kemp passed, that was then struck down in court but he proceeded with any way was LEGALLY found to be written to target poor and minority voters at a clip of 70%. So it was beyond Bullshit, it was in fact illegal. But he did it any way, and he won his election.

 

[gkekoa]

I think i see the disconnect here. You are assuming racism has always existed. Prejudice has always been around. And most of us have some form of it. Racism Is different in that it is the assumption that one race is superior to another and basing your hate on the assumption that your race is superior to another race. Prejudice is usually passive in nature, in that you just avoid those things or people you are not fond of. Racism is active in that you attempt to harm, belittle or in other ways get rid of those you find inferior.

It most certainly did take something away from white men. Their ability to rule with impunity. And some are still pissed about that. IF that were truly the case, you wouldnt see primarily white men taking concerted efforts to minimize the women and minority vote across this country.

Red tape as you put it is a direct attempt to prevent or limit the voter pool. The Exact match law Kemp passed, that was then struck down in court but he proceeded with any way was LEGALLY found to be written to target poor and minority voters at a clip of 70%. So it was beyond Bullshit, it was in fact illegal. But he did it any way, and he won his election.

Very few, if any, actually believe one race is superior to another. They may believe that a race may have certain abilities that are superior to other races. Hell, natural selection would support that idea.

Going by your definition of racism, almost everything you claim to be racist is not racist.

If your opinion of voting was accurate, minorities and women wouldn’t be voting today.

So let me get this straight. The law that was passed more than a year prior to the election, which holds all people equally responsible, and gives them three ways to match is unfair to minorities or the poor? How so? From there, from everything I read, those 3,000 people were allowed to vote.

 

[skinsdad62]

China has agreed to reduce and remove tariffs on cars coming into China from the U.S. Currently the tariff is 40%.

For those who didn’t understand why tariffs were put in place and the real goal of getting a better deal and not economic theory or fear mongering

 

[ehb5]

Are foreigners citizens? Yes, we should make the distinction on legal status.

Criminals have been given due process and their rights can be restricted.

Nice try though.

Is that what I said? Come on dude. I specifically said white people can be selfish too. I specifically said that Asians are less selfish than whites in this scenario. Why do you limit it to black and white? Are you a racist?
How many times do I need to say problems are more cultural?

So then you do believe the government should discriminate...

Yes that is in fact what you said. Your entire argument here comes down to saying "well that group of people just happens to be more selfish than the other group". Some would call that racism. Just sayin.

I didn't limit anything to black and white. Not sure where you're getting that from. You are the only one arguing these races are inherently different - that one group is ultimately just more selfish than the other.

 

[ehb5]

I still wonder about the thought process sometimes. I mean Slavery and Jim Crow and all its attendant BS lasted for something like 15 generations from the time it started until the civil rights movement. There have been two generations since the Civil rights movement. The Culture of Blacks specifically is a result of 15 generations of being treated as property, then 3rd class, and finally second class citizens.

Yet in what amounts to two generations, we should have been able to correct and overcome fifteen generations worth of Damage?? Frankly I still find it amazing that in the time between Slavery ending and now, some twisted minds have not just hunted black Americans out of existence.. though it wasnt for a lack of trying by some.

Yeah there's a completely obvious explanation for these things...

Yet some people will attempt the most absurd mental gymnastics to explain it all away as magical selfishness (or whatever trait is the flavor of the day) that just keeps popping up in one group.

And for what?

 

[ehb5]

It makes perfect sense. Having children outside of marriage is selfish. You had sex because you wanted to be gratified. Doing drugs is selfish because you want to feel good. Not doing your homework is selfish because you would rather play. All these things are bad decisions that have a huge effect on your future.

I find it funny how you are offended by the idea that black individuals are equal and their outcome is made by their humanity, but you find it completely acceptable to make laws that favor your group based on the idea that your group is inferior and are incapable of overcoming the choices they make.

My idea actually holds you as an equal; whereas, your idea holds you as unequal and in need of government assistance to help you achieve an equal result. Somehow, my idea you consider racist.

So why are some races more selfish than others according to you? What is your explanation for that?

No I am actually for a merit based system. A merit based system relies on a fair playing field for all. When one group of people has an advantage over another that's not a fair playing field.

If the Eagles get a 14-0 headstart tonight before kickoff and go on to win 21-7, they didn't earn the win based on merit. It wasn't an even playing field.

Btw I don't think my idea is gonna lead to much government assistance for me...

 

[gkekoa]

So then you do believe the government should discriminate...

Yes that is in fact what you said. Your entire argument here comes down to saying "well that group of people just happens to be more selfish than the other group". Some would call that racism. Just sayin.

I didn't limit anything to black and white. Not sure where you're getting that from. You are the only one arguing these races are inherently different - that one group is ultimately just more selfish than the other.

The government shouldn’t discriminate among its citizens because that is who they have authority over. No law should be created to favor one group over another.

If you believe black people are every bit as capable of achieving what a white person is capable of achieving, but by your standard they are not doing so...then there has to be a reason. I believe the reason is poor choices. You pushed and asked what is behind the poor choices and I stated the reason behind most poor choices is selfishness. If you want to continually ask questions, I will continually answer them knowing what you are trying to do.

Let me ask you this...do you believe the average black child takes education as seriously as the average white child or is pushed to the same extent as white parents? Do you believe the average child in the inner city pushes his peers to do better in school to an equal extent as the non inner city school children?

I am arguing that all people are different. Do you not believe natural selection would make people inherently different going back thousands of years? If so, why are you black and I am white? If we are the same, why is our pigmentation different. Wait...our pigmentation can’t be different because we are the same by your logic.

 

[gkekoa]

So why are some races more selfish than others according to you? What is your explanation for that?

No I am actually for a merit based system. A merit based system relies on a fair playing field for all. When one group of people has an advantage over another that's not a fair playing field.

If the Eagles get a 14-0 headstart tonight before kickoff and go on to win 21-7, they didn't earn the win based on merit. It wasn't an even playing field.

Btw I don't think my idea is gonna lead to much government assistance for me...

I don’t have an explanation for it. It was a conclusion you led me to based on my belief we are the product of our choices.

What is the advantage?

When did I claim things are universal?

 

[ehb5]

The government shouldn’t discriminate among its citizens because that is who they have authority over. No law should be created to favor one group over another.

If you believe black people are every bit as capable of achieving what a white person is capable of achieving, but by your standard they are not doing so...then there has to be a reason. I believe the reason is poor choices. You pushed and asked what is behind the poor choices and I stated the reason behind most poor choices is selfishness. If you want to continually ask questions, I will continually answer them knowing what you are trying to do.

Let me ask you this...do you believe the average black child takes education as seriously as the average white child or is pushed to the same extent as white parents? Do you believe the average child in the inner city pushes his peers to do better in school to an equal extent as the non inner city school children?

I am arguing that all people are different. Do you not believe natural selection would make people inherently different going back thousands of years? If so, why are you black and I am white? If we are the same, why is our pigmentation different. Wait...our pigmentation can’t be different because we are the same by your logic.

Criminals are still citizens. As are old people. And people under 21. And people under 18. And people with disabilities. And on and on. Are you suggesting those distinctions shouldn't be made?

Yes I pushed for you to answer that because you have 2 choices. 1. Something external is causing this problem (aka systemic racism) or 2. Something internal is causing it (aka you believe black people are somehow inferior).

What is it that you THINK I'm trying to do?

I would assume so yes. And if the answer is no I feel confident it isn't because of some inherent selfishness.

By "different" you just mean some groups are better than others. At least own up to it.

Also, I'm white dude.

 

[ehb5]

I don’t have an explanation for it. It was a conclusion you led me to based on my belief we are the product of our choices.

What is the advantage?

When did I claim things are universal?

I didn't lead you to it. This is YOUR belief. Own up to it. Clearly you have thought about this. Just not far enough to get passed the "well black people are just more selfish" point. That's YOUR explanation.

The disadvantage is systemic racism. It's only been shown to exist in countless areas of modern day society time and time again. Why are you trying so hard to deny that exists?