Penalties/Game Over Time

[pixburgher66]

Okay, I know that I've mentioned this in the past, but the eyeball test has told me that we're reaching clutch and grab levels of no-penalties being called. Well, a bit of research has confirmed that we're in a possibly worse time for this.

(Info from SportingCharts.com)

We'll start from 99-00. Most of us would say this was part of the peak of dead puck, right? Devils were in their hay day with the trap, etc.

NHL average PP/game
99-00: 4.03
00-01: 4.59
01-02: 4.13
02-03: 4.42
03-04: 4.24
Lockout
05-06: 5.85
06-07: 4.85
07-08: 4.28
08-09: 4.16
09-10: 3.71
10-11: 3.54
11-12: 3.31
12-13: 3.32
13-14: 3.27
14-15: 3.14

There's a few things obvious: the focus on increasing goal scoring after the lockout resulted in a huge uptick in powerplays/game, and that pretty much since that time the league is pushing to decrease powerplays. We're 10 years from the lockout and we're 2.71 (!!!) fewer pp/g. Even if you want to call that an outlier because of over correction, which is fair, we're still in a remarkably low pp/g place. May come back in a few and correlate this with goals/game across the league.

 

[awaz]

interesting thread pix.

I wonder if the decrease in PP minutes is so drastic because of the extreme drop off in 'enforcer' type guys and 'agitators'. Even the flyers have gone games this year without an enforcer OR agitator. And I don't think they've dressed a true enforcer all year.

I think the game is just too fast for those guys and teams are trending towards more talented/fast 4th lines to add even strength goal scoring. There's just a lot more focus on speed/skill than physical play these days I think which leads to less penalties.

Because it doesn't seem like there's a lot of clutching and grabbing going on to me at least.

 

[pixburgher66]

Okay, same site using here to find goals/game over the same time period.

NHL average goal/game
99-00: 2.75
00-01: 2.76
01-02: 2.62
02-03: 2.66
03-04: 2.57
Lockout
05-06: 3.03
06-07: 2.88
07-08: 2.72
08-09: 2.85
09-10: 2.77
10-11: 2.73
11-12: 2.66
12-13: 2.65
13-14: 2.67
14-15: 2.69

Not a HUGE difference there, but still.

 

[pixburgher66]

interesting thread pix.

I wonder if the decrease in PP minutes is so drastic because of the extreme drop off in 'enforcer' type guys and 'agitators'. Even the flyers have gone games this year without an enforcer OR agitator. And I don't think they've dressed a true enforcer all year.

I think the game is just too fast for those guys and teams are trending towards more talented/fast 4th lines to add even strength goal scoring. There's just a lot more focus on speed/skill than physical play these days I think which leads to less penalties.

Because it doesn't seem like there's a lot of clutching and grabbing going on to me at least.

Perhaps, but this isn't including fights, and we all know that the "instigator" was never actually a thing. Still something to be considered. Regardless of the type of penalty, even the huge decrease from post-lockout on (when most would say the game opened up to more speed) is revealing. I mean this is the lowest number I can find by a long shot. Stats I found only went back to 90/91 season though. I suppose my point is when you combine this with the increase in goalie pad size, etc you're only going to see offensive output dip further. If there's one stat that's most revealing it's seeing how it's effecting stars. The league lead in points will not (barring a shocking last month and change) break 100pts. 1.07pts/game is the lead! That's insane.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Are the PP/G numbers per team or total?

Because maybe it's just me, but that seems like a really low total.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Perhaps, but this isn't including fights, and we all know that the "instigator" was never actually a thing. Still something to be considered. Regardless of the type of penalty, even the huge decrease from post-lockout on (when most would say the game opened up to more speed) is revealing. I mean this is the lowest number I can find by a long shot. Stats I found only went back to 90/91 season though. I suppose my point is when you combine this with the increase in goalie pad size, etc you're only going to see offensive output dip further. If there's one stat that's most revealing it's seeing how it's effecting stars. The league lead in points will not (barring a shocking last month and change) break 100pts. 1.07pts/game is the lead! That's insane.

And the last time an Art Ross winner was under 100 points (in a non-lockout season) was in '03-'04, right before the lockout.

Current pace puts us below 90 for this year. Which would be the lowest total (again, non-lockout) since at least 1968, when the winning total was 87. And that was a 74 game season.

And not to dispute your assertion Pix, but the highest PPG is 1.09 right now, but Crosby missed 4 games, which is why he's not the league leader.

 

[pixburgher66]

Are the PP/G numbers per team or total?

Because maybe it's just me, but that seems like a really low total.

Per team, not per game. So, an example: the Bruins are currently the lowest at 2.37 powerplay opportunities per game (holy shite that's bad).

 

[pixburgher66]

And the last time an Art Ross winner was under 100 points (in a non-lockout season) was in '03-'04, right before the lockout.

Current pace puts us below 90 for this year. Which would be the lowest total (again, non-lockout) since at least 1968, when the winning total was 87. And that was a 74 game season.

And not to dispute your assertion Pix, but the highest PPG is 1.09 right now, but Crosby missed 4 games, which is why he's not the league leader.

Sorry, was going off Backstrom's. But still, that's bad.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Per team, not per game. So, an example: the Bruins are currently the lowest at 2.37 powerplay opportunities per game (holy shite that's bad).

Figured it had to be per team per game. At least I'm not going crazy. Not about that at least.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Sorry, was going off Backstrom's. But still, that's bad.

That's why I made sure to say I wasn't disputing your point, since you were right on with the point (no pun intended). Depending on exactly what happens, it will likely be the lowest total in a very long time. Post-expansion for sure it seems.

I'm sure the league will try to spin it as parity.

 

[sherbert1421]

interesting thread

but i think the decrease may just be that the players are finally adapting to the game and their instincts aren't telling them to hook and hold anymore. i go back and watch old pre lockout wings games quite frequently and the amount of hooking and holding in those games compared to today are night and day.

 

[pixburgher66]

That's why I made sure to say I wasn't disputing your point, since you were right on with the point (no pun intended). Depending on exactly what happens, it will likely be the lowest total in a very long time. Post-expansion for sure it seems.

I'm sure the league will try to spin it as parity.

Of course it will. It's weird that we remember the dead-puck era with vitrol, but right now we're in pretty much the same place, and in regard to penalties in a worse place.

Goals per game didn't dip below 3 until 1996 at 2.92, with 1997 dropping to 2.64 (1994 was 2.99, but I'll leave that out since '95 was at 3.14), then the lockout hit and we got up over 3 again, only to descend back to the point we are now. I think a big reason it's been easy to overlook is because of stars producing, but even they're being suppressed a bit it would seem. Personally I enjoy 50 goal scorers, 100+ points in a season, etc.

 

[pixburgher66]

interesting thread

but i think the decrease may just be that the players are finally adapting to the game and their instincts aren't telling them to hook and hold anymore. i go back and watch old pre lockout wings games quite frequently and the amount of hooking and holding in those games compared to today are night and day.

Another part of it is impetuous on shot blocking, which is certainly legal. But I think looking at Larionov's comments from today is also interesting. Creativity in today's game isn't looked upon in the same way. Datsyuk, Kane, Malkin, et al aren't allowed to do as much as they really could.

 

[tducey]

Neat, thanks for posting this.

 

[awaz]

one solution would be just to have the flyers and pens play more often. Those games are typically fairly high scoring

 

[awaz]

I wonder if the league tries to crack down on penalties again though as a way to boost scoring. I don't really think there's a ton of room to do that though. Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see enough 'missed calls' on a game in and game out basis that would warrant a crack down. I think it's just a cleaner game right now.

Though goal scoring / point totals are way down. I don't know what the story could be for that.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I can see both sides of it

Fans who want entertainment want more goals and more goals is fun, but coaches want to play a certain way because they see that's it's been successful and it's a copycat league - I think some players are scared of being more creative because of the risks involved and how coaches have an itch up their ass the second a player makes a mistake, because they begin to be paranoid as well

imo, the great teams will still win no matter what, so if the argument is that it's affecting certain teams that there are less penalties, than too bad - it's up to the teams to adjust - great teams will win no matter what the situation is - also, the great players in this league will adjust and find a way to be great offensively and defensively

 

[esls79]

And a far greater percentage of penalties called this year reek of the game management variety.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I'm sure part of it is the shootout. Like it or not (mostly not), it gives us the impression of scoring in games by forcing a winner.

Just picking a random year of 2000-2001, there were a total of 152 games that ended in a tie, or a bit over 12% of the regular season. Even without more "real" scoring, by forcing a winner now, it ends up looking like more goals were scored.

 

[pixburgher66]

I wonder if the league tries to crack down on penalties again though as a way to boost scoring. I don't really think there's a ton of room to do that though. Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see enough 'missed calls' on a game in and game out basis that would warrant a crack down. I think it's just a cleaner game right now.

Though goal scoring / point totals are way down. I don't know what the story could be for that.

Most of this was spurred on (in my mind) because of a simple thing last night, in what was actually a high scoring game: