PAC 12 Thread v6.0

[WizardHawk]

I remember when the conference first split for some reason everyone thought the South would be the stronger division.

The conference should always be USC's to dominate when they have a solid (and I mean SOLID) HC given the built in recruiting advantages and history of that program.

Splitting the conf did change the focus of teams. No matter who's the top of the conference, you still have your goal of taking your division first and at least contesting the conference. However, the reason the North has dominated so far is as much or more about the timing and USC being down after sanctions and a string of lol HC's.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/ranking-pac-12-qb-2018
Ranking the 2018 Pac-12 Quarterbacks

 

[AlaskaGuy]

 

[AlaskaGuy]

 

[AlaskaGuy]

Can Washington lead Pac-12 rebound?

 

[AlaskaGuy]

Pac-12 college football 2018: Complete schedules for every team

 

[WizardHawk]

Pac-12 college football 2018: Complete schedules for every team

2018 Pac-12 Football Helmet Schedule
Better complete conf schedule. I keep a copy of this on all of my machine every year.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

 

[socaljim242]

2018 Pac-12 Football Helmet Schedule
Better complete conf schedule. I keep a copy of this on all of my machine every year.

Finally a fucking link that's useful.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have a feeling that wide open parity in the South isn't going to continue at that level going forward. Either USC is going to take that next step, or possibly Chip or maybe in a few years Sumlin? but I can't see that division staying with a mix of mostly second tier teams all fighting over the run to the CCG for much longer. One or two teams are going to lap the rest soon.

Yeah, I expect that if USC doesn't do it, Helton's seat will start getting pretty warm, pretty quickly. Right now, and for the past couple of seasons, Trojans, for the most part, have just been happy to have a grown up running things.

However, if we don't start seeing some separation between us and the rest of the South, the natives will become restless and 9-10 win seasons, winning the South every couple of years or so and decent bowl games won't be enough for him to keep his job.

 

[socaljim242]

Yeah, I expect that if USC doesn't do it, Helton's seat will start getting pretty warm, pretty quickly. Right now, and for the past couple of seasons, Trojans, for the most part, have just been happy to have a grown up running things.

However, if we don't start seeing some separation between us and the rest of the South, the natives will become restless and 9-10 win seasons, winning the South every couple of years or so and decent bowl games won't be enough for him to keep his job.

Totally agree. Most everyone (vegas and sports pubs) have the over under at 8.5 games which is very surprising to me.
I don't know about you but most of the fans I know expect nothing less than 10 wins and at least playing in the CCG or there will be the start of a fire under his ass. Way to much talent and depth to be anywhere near Utah and Arizona State at the end. I realize they will probably start a freshman QB but thats no excuse. The kid was going to be the top QB in the country for the 2019 class so it's not just any freshman QB.

 

[trojanfan12]

Totally agree. Most everyone (vegas and sports pubs) have the over under at 8.5 games which is very surprising to me.
I don't know about you but most of the fans I know expect nothing less than 10 wins and at least playing in the CCG or there will be the start of a fire under his ass. Way to much talent and depth to be anywhere near Utah and Arizona State at the end. I realize they will probably start a freshman QB but thats no excuse. The kid was going to be the top QB in the country for the 2019 class so it's not just any freshman QB.

Yeah, I think that he will get a little bit of a pass this season because, no matter who starts, we will have an inexperienced qb.

But even this season, if we don't win 10 games and the South, folks will be looking at him like

But if there isn't separation next season, those looks will turn into

 

[socaljim242]

Yeah, I think that he will get a little bit of a pass this season because, no matter who starts, we will have an inexperienced qb.

But even this season, if we don't win 10 games and the South, folks will be looking at him like

But if there isn't separation next season, those looks will turn into

In my eyes there's always going to be some unit or two that is young. It's college players leave early and even if they don't you only have them for a few seasons. So sometimes you're going to have a young D line or a young WR corps or young DBs but you can't throw away a season waiting for next year.
Yeah, I agree QB is the one position where youth is a big disadvantage. But thats where coaching should take over and the game plan should take the load off the kid with a good running game and less complicated pass routes till he can handle more.
QBs today have way more schooling at their position than in the past. JT should be ahead of where Darnold was as a freshman because JT had all the private coaching and 7 on 7 play and been starting in HS for three years where Darnold was still playing linebacker and some QB in his JR year of HS.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, I expect that if USC doesn't do it, Helton's seat will start getting pretty warm, pretty quickly. Right now, and for the past couple of seasons, Trojans, for the most part, have just been happy to have a grown up running things.

However, if we don't start seeing some separation between us and the rest of the South, the natives will become restless and 9-10 win seasons, winning the South every couple of years or so and decent bowl games won't be enough for him to keep his job.

There shouldn't ever be a reason for your fans to accept anything less than conference leadership at the very least so I would totally expect more voices if he doesn't keep moving in the right direction and maybe bring home a few major signature wins in the near future.

The broader point though is there is a sort of fence/separation having divisions now so there are for sure going to be two different battles going forward which brings a lot more incentive to keep spending money on facilities, better coaches, etc. We no longer have just one ultimate winner and just getting to the CCG gives you a chance beyond your talent rating.

 

[trojanfan12]

In my eyes there's always going to be some unit or two that is young. It's college players leave early and even if they don't you only have them for a few seasons. So sometimes you're going to have a young D line or a young WR corps or young DBs but you can't throw away a season waiting for next year.
Yeah, I agree QB is the one position where youth is a big disadvantage. But thats where coaching should take over and the game plan should take the load off the kid with a good running game and less complicated pass routes till he can handle more.
QBs today have way more schooling at their position than in the past. JT should be ahead of where Darnold was as a freshman because JT had all the private coaching and 7 on 7 play and been starting in HS for three years where Darnold was still playing linebacker and some QB in his JR year of HS.

I agree. But as you said, qb is the one position where inexperience is a big disadvantage. Remember, we only went 9-4 when we had Barkley as a true freshman qb.

Granted, much of that was the defense falling apart, but as a true freshman, Barkley wasn't able to elevate his play enough to make up the difference. He had just as much experience as JT clear down to playing at the same school.

My biggest concern with Helton is loyalty to friends on the staff of all things. If the o-line doesn't show tremendous improvement this year, then Callaway needs to be fired and I'm not sure Helton will do it because the guy is apparently a friend of his Dad's.

 

[trojanfan12]

There shouldn't ever be a reason for your fans to accept anything less than conference leadership at the very least so I would totally expect more voices if he doesn't keep moving in the right direction and maybe bring home a few major signature wins in the near future.

The broader point though is there is a sort of fence/separation having divisions now so there are for sure going to be two different battles going forward which brings a lot more incentive to keep spending money on facilities, better coaches, etc. We no longer have just one ultimate winner and just getting to the CCG gives you a chance beyond your talent rating.

Yep, I agree.

Kiffin, for all of his "Kiffinness" got us through the sanctions in far better fashion than I think anyone expected. He even managed to pull off a couple of signature wins.

Sark was drunk.

Now we have Helton who has stabilized the program and we finally don't have to wake up in the morning afraid to turn on ESPN and see that our coach has done/said something embarrassing.

But it's getting to be time to take the next step. If Helton isn't up to the task, he won't be around much longer. That would suck because from what I've read and heard, everyone loves the guy. But end of the day, you have to meet expectations.

 

[socaljim242]

I agree. But as you said, qb is the one position where inexperience is a big disadvantage. Remember, we only went 9-4 when we had Barkley as a true freshman qb.

Granted, much of that was the defense falling apart, but as a true freshman, Barkley wasn't able to elevate his play enough to make up the difference. He had just as much experience as JT clear down to playing at the same school.

My biggest concern with Helton is loyalty to friends on the staff of all things. If the o-line doesn't show tremendous improvement this year, then Callaway needs to be fired and I'm not sure Helton will do it because the guy is apparently a friend of his Dad's.

I have had that conversation with a good friend of mine (my sons godfather) who's an alum and in Germany (military). He told me the other day that he thinks Callaway should have been fired already. That he doesn't see improvement in the players he's getting from year to year. That he's getting 4* or higher kids and they don't get better and in fact have been getting pushed around. I tend to agree.
One concern I have is that Helton might be hesitant to bring in a really experienced assistant or anyone who would be talked about as a replacement if things get heated. I see him bringing in an OC whos never been an OC (Tee) a QB coach from a small college and I just wonder if he's just getting younger guys who he doesn't have to worry about taking his job. It's USC and every QB that has started since 2000 has been drafted with two Heismans and the best he could get for that spot is Western Kentuckys OC who just happened to play for Callaway in college? I don't think he's been searching far enough when looking for assistants.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have had that conversation with a good friend of mine (my sons godfather) who's an alum and in Germany (military). He told me the other day that he thinks Callaway should have been fired already. That he doesn't see improvement in the players he's getting from year to year. That he's getting 4* or higher kids and they don't get better and in fact have been getting pushed around. I tend to agree.
One concern I have is that Helton might be hesitant to bring in a really experienced assistant or anyone who would be talked about as a replacement if things get heated. I see him bringing in an OC whos never been an OC (Tee) a QB coach from a small college and I just wonder if he's just getting younger guys who he doesn't have to worry about taking his job. It's USC and every QB that has started since 2000 has been drafted with two Heismans and the best he could get for that spot is Western Kentuckys OC who just happened to play for Callaway in college? I don't think he's been searching far enough when looking for assistants.

Agree with much of this.

To be fair though, you kind of have to hire younger assistants who can speak the same language the kids do and most coaches are going to hire folks they know, have worked with or have worked with someone they are close to and/or trust.

However, if you do that, then you also have to understand that if they don't perform, you have to be able to cut them loose and go after the right guy. That's the part that concerns me about Helton.

As for Tee, you and I kind of disagree. He was/is considered an up and coming young coach who was going to be considered for OC jobs at other programs. No sense in losing him if you don't have to. Especially since he is apparently a top notch recruiter.

After Norm Chow, Pete Carroll went with Kiffin/Sark as OC's who were up and coming young coaches and top notch recruiters like Tee.

I haven't been overly impressed with Tee, but I don't think he's done a bad job either. Some growing pains were to be expected.

But, like Callaway and the o-line, I think we need to see improvement or it may be time to look for someone else for that spot too.

 

[socaljim242]

Agree with much of this.

To be fair though, you kind of have to hire younger assistants who can speak the same language the kids do and most coaches are going to hire folks they know, have worked with or have worked with someone they are close to and/or trust.

However, if you do that, then you also have to understand that if they don't perform, you have to be able to cut them loose and go after the right guy. That's the part that concerns me about Helton.

As for Tee, you and I kind of disagree. He was/is considered an up and coming young coach who was going to be considered for OC jobs at other programs. No sense in losing him if you don't have to. Especially since he is apparently a top notch recruiter.

After Norm Chow, Pete Carroll went with Kiffin/Sark as OC's who were up and coming young coaches and top notch recruiters like Tee.

I haven't been overly impressed with Tee, but I don't think he's done a bad job either. Some growing pains were to be expected.

But, like Callaway and the o-line, I think we need to see improvement or it may be time to look for someone else for that spot too.

I'd hate to lose Tee because he is a great recruiter. I just think USC shouldn't be hiring coaches for their first job as OC or DC . We have Helton already who two seasons ago had never been a head coach so I was hoping he'd hire experienced assistants all the way around. I was at the USC UCLA game last season and while I know Rosens a great QB . The fact is who ever the UCLA OC is he got the most of a UCLA squad that was really undermanned and had little depth at the skill positions. Play after play they had USC on their heals where you didn't know what they were going to do. That was a great offensive game plan. On the other side USC was so predictable that fans were calling the plays before they happened. If not for the talent of Darnold to avoid the rush and make plays when things broke down they would have lost to a team that shouldn't have been anywhere close.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

Oregon Football: Game-by-Game Predictions for 2018