1. Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

On to Grass courts: the real tennis thread

Discussion in 'Tennis' started by Hs0022, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Hs0022

    Hs0022 Well-Known Member

    1,613
    36
    48
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Fed almost out at the hands of Mischa Zverev today. Lost the first set and second set went with serve until 4-4.. leaving me to wonder if Fed has to pull out a magic bunny from under the hat in the tie break.
    Decider was straightforward.
     



  2. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    This is the fake tennis thread. The Australian Open has been the best major every year since 2012.

    During the grass season last year, the only memorable matches were :

    * Mischa Zverev vs. Feliciano Lopez SF in Stuttgart. This was 3 sets, with the first 2 needing tiebreaks and the 3rd set a 7-5 set.

    * Ivo Karlovic vs. Aljaz Bedene, 1st round Wimbledon: This one had tiebreaks in the first 4 sets. The 5th set was 8-6.

    * Marin Cilic vs. Ivo Karlovic, SF of Netherlands: This one had tiebreaks in the first and 3rd sets, and a 7-5 2nd set.

    * Ivo Karlovic vs. Giles Muller, Finals of Netherlands: This one had 2 tiebreaks.

    * Sam Querrey vs. Tsonga, 3rd round of Wimbledon: This one went 5 sets.

    * Sam Querrey vs. Kevin Anderson, 4th round of Wimbledon: This one went 5 sets, including a 13-11 4th set tiebreak.

    * Rafa Nadal vs. Giles Muller, 4th round of Wimbledon: This one went 5 sets.

    * Mischa Zverev vs. Mikhail Kukushin, 2nd round of Wimbledon: This one went 5 sets.


    So across 5 tournaments over 3 weeks, that's only 8 great matches.

    I can usually find 8 great matches at the Australian Open alone (if including Womens matches too).
     
  3. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    As for Federer, as I mentioned in another thread, he doesn't generate break chances on grass. He's had a problem with this since the mid 2000s.

    Look at the Alexandro Falla match in 2010. He only broke him once in the first 2 sets, and dropped the first 2 sets, because of it. He needed 5 sets to win a 1st round match against Falla.

    Look at the Berdych match in 2010. He only broke him once across 4 sets and lost.

    Look at the Tsonga match in 2011. He had only one break point chance across 5 sets. He lost the match.

    Look at the Benneteau match in 2012, 3rd round. He couldn't break the first 2 sets, and dropped them. He needed 5 sets to beat him, and didn't break him until the 3rd set.

    Look at the Cilic match in 2016. He dropped the first 2 sets because he couldn't break him. He needed 5 sets to beat him.


    I watched all of these matches, and was punching my couch a lot of the time, because of how much he struggled on return games.


    Now, look at the match you just referenced. He didn't break Misha Zverev until late in the 2nd set. Doesn't it sound just like these other matches, where he struggled against someone who could have a good serving day?

    If this was on hard courts, FED usually doesn't have 2 bad sets in a row, and would have had one set where he would have a lot of break chances.

    Federer played Roddick 2x at the Australian Open, and never dropped a set. He went 11/20 on break points, across 6 sets. So he converted on an average of 11 points/6 sets = 1.83 break points a set, and generated 3.33 chances a set.

    Meanwhile, 2 of the 4 times they played at Wimbledon, Federer has dropped at least 1 set. He went 13/34 on break points, across 4 matches. A much worse percentage, and that's also across 15 sets. He converted on 0.86 break points a set, and generated 2.26 break chances a set.

    They played 2x at the US Open. FED dropped 1 set. He went 8/20 on break points. That's an average of 1.14 break points converted per set, and 2.86 break chances a set.

    He's just able to break more easily on hard courts across all opponents, leading to less stress matches. Less chances of getting into tiebreakers, and less chances of the opponent winning a tiebreak.
     
  4. Old Lion

    Old Lion Trump Lion in the white house, Old Lion is back.

    11,001
    1,795
    173
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Location:
    Emerald City, OZ
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Grass really is not much better than clay TBH. It is fun to be there in person though. It has a certain majesty and history about it. Just more eloquent I guess. On TV though it is tough to watch similar to clay.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Hs0022

    Hs0022 Well-Known Member

    1,613
    36
    48
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Why bring stats from the slump that fed went through? He had back issues and switched racquets during the Time frame where he had a brush off against Cocateau.

    Normally people who bring up stats to an argument lack the analyzing skill. It’s like regurgitating something you memorized for an exam without understanding the material.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Is Cocateau = Benneteau?

    The time range with the examples I listed were from 2010 - 2016. But I could have gone back even a little farther back than that.

    Are you attributing back problems during that entire range?

    He also switched racquets in 2014. The Benneteau match, for example, was in 2012.

    Switching racquets made him play better. 2014 was a much better year than 2013. I didn't list any examples from 2013.

    Some of the years I listed, he still won some of those matches, but I didn't like how hard he had to work, and how much danger he was in.

    The examples were about comparing how he plays on one surface, vs. another. At the Australian Open, pretty much during his entire career, he's usually generated more break chances, converted more break points, and lost less sets against the same opponents he has also played on grass.

    On grass, there are times when he can't get into return games against a potentially good server, whereas on hard courts, he can. Sometimes it's because of the different tactics he can deploy on hard courts, such as returning a ball in such a way that he would draw his opponent in No Man's Land, then hit a passing shot. He did that against Roddick at the Australian Open, for example.
     
  7. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    There was a time when I liked watching matches on grass, but since the mid or early 2000s, I've liked hard courts more.

    To me, clay also has a history about it too, and I like watching long rallies. I think it's funny to watch someone use drop shots when the opponent stands too far behind the baseline. But, I understand you and some others don't like watching clay as much, so that's fine. This isn't the thread for that discussion.

    In terms of being tough to watch, before HD TVs, both clay and grass were very difficult. Not enough contrast.

    I had to rewind and use slo mo on my VCR tapes, so many times.

    The US Open's color scheme in 2005 is great. I think both they, and the blue courts of the AO, are provide the best contrast with yellow tennis balls.

    The Madrid Open had blue clay one year. Federer won it, and Djokovic and Nadal complained, so they switched it back. I think the blue clay had great contrast too.

    Probably another reason why I like watching hard courts, is the color scheme.

    In terms of live tennis, I think I would like any surface, as long as I liked the players. I've only gone to live events if I knew who was playing beforehand.
     
  8. Hs0022

    Hs0022 Well-Known Member

    1,613
    36
    48
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Fed vs ServeBot.
     
  9. Hs0022

    Hs0022 Well-Known Member

    1,613
    36
    48
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Fed defeats ServeBot 6-4,7-6(3 to lift title number 98. On to Halla.
     
  10. bksballer89

    bksballer89 Most Popular Member

    86,563
    10,087
    1,033
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 21,308


    Hard court tennis>grass court tennis
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. bksballer89

    bksballer89 Most Popular Member

    86,563
    10,087
    1,033
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 21,308


  12. Old Lion

    Old Lion Trump Lion in the white house, Old Lion is back.

    11,001
    1,795
    173
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Location:
    Emerald City, OZ
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


  13. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    I didn't understand most of the trophy ceremony because it was in German. But I liked watching it.

    What does someone do if they win a car, like at the Mercedes Cup, but live overseas? If Mercedes was still a sponsor in 1988, what would Agassi have done if he wanted the car transported back to the USA? How much would that cost?

    Stuttgart Open - Wikipedia
     
  14. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Well-Known Member

    9,140
    151
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hoopla Bookie:
    $ 1,000


    Bad day for the Zverevs. Murray also lost.