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O Brother, Where Art Thou Playoff Successes

vancelot23

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A debate has begun this postseason. Both sides of the debate have good points, and plenty of evidence to support their positions, as well as plenty of support. It could be a discussion for the ages; one that continues on for years, with no clear winner. Lives could be changed forever and families divided. Ok, maybe not that. It's not offense vs defense, or AFC vs NFC, or even Patriots vs Giants. This controversial and colossal clash is...Peyton vs Eli?
Peyton Manning is widely regarded as one of the best quarterbacks to play the game of football in history. He led his team to the playoffs 9 straight seasons up until this year's injury. He won a Super Bowl and made it to another. He is an 11-time Pro-Bowler, a 4-time league MVP, and a sure-fire 1st ballot hall of famer. Yet, there is a large faction who will tell you that Peyton withers in the playoffs, and that his younger brother is the better of the two once the postseason starts.
Eli Manning made the playoffs for the 5th time this season, and is playing in his 2nd Super Bowl. He won his 1st trip. He has a better playoff record, percentage-wise than Peyton, and if the Giants beat the Patriots, he'll have one more ring. So, is Eli better after the regular season ends than the great Peyton Manning? Let's examine.
First, a few numbers to set a baseline: Peyton is 9-10 in the playoffs for his career, with a 63% completion percentage, 29 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions. His career playoff quarterback rating is 88.4. Eli is 7-3, with a 59% completion percentage, 16 TDs and 8 INTs. His passer rating is 87.5. The winning percentage clearly favors the younger brother, but the numbers are fairly even.
One of the arguments against Peyton is that his defense carried him to his Super Bowl, and that he didn't play that well, even then. In that game, Peyton threw for 250 yards, a TD and an INT. They're not off the charts, but they're certainly decent enough. The Colts defense did play pretty well, forcing 5 turnovers, and definitely played a large part in the win. Now, compare that game to Eli's Super Bowl win. Eli completed 56% for 250 yards, 2 TDs and an INT, which is eerily similar to Peyton's. Also, don't forget that Eli doesn't get that ring if David Tyree doesn't make what might be the most amazing catch in Super Bowl history. In addition, the Giants defense held the unbelievably great Patriots offense, which led New England to an undefeated regular season, to just 14 points, so I'd make the claim that the Giants D is as responsible for Eli's ring as the Colts D is for Peyton's, maybe moreso.
Another knock that Peyton gets is that he cost them the game in the Super Bowl against the Saints. He definitely threw a costly INT late in the game, but let's not forget, the Colts were already losing at the time, so there's no guarantee it would have won them the game if he doesn't throw that. The Colts defense didn't play well in the 2nd half of that game, and the special teams let the Saints recover an onsides kick that switched the momentum of the game. The Colts also missed a FG in that game, when they were up 17-16. I would argue that the defense and special teams were more responsible for that loss than Peyton.
The 9-10 playoff record would seem to indicate that the elder Manning has struggled, and to be sure, he has had some bad games, particularly a couple against the Patriots, but he has also had some pretty good games that the team lost anyway. One final comparison with Eli and the Giants: In Peyton's 19 playoff games, his defense has given up an average of 21 points per game. In Eli's 10 appearances, the Giants D has given up just 17 per game. Offensively, Peyton's teams have scored over 22 points per game. Eli's teams have scored under 20 per game.
What does all of this mean? It means that football is a team game, and even the quarterback isn't responsible for every loss or win that his team gets. Eli has had the benefit of a better defense, not to mention one of the most miraculous plays in NFL history, to assist his postseason aura. Peyton has really good numbers in the playoffs, despite his record, and doesn't appear to deserve a lot of the knocks he has gotten. You be the judge, but if I had to win a Super Bowl, and Peyton Manning was my QB, I would be pretty happy.
 
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flamingrey

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The debate is pretty stupid because it isn't even close. It's just something manufactured to give all the talking heads something to talk about. The overall talent Eli has around him offensively and defensively, Peyton has only seen in his dreams.
 

Tubbs1518

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The debate is pretty stupid because it isn't even close. It's just something manufactured to give all the talking heads something to talk about. The overall talent Eli has around him offensively and defensively, Peyton has only seen in his dreams.

Harrison, Wayne, Freeny, Mathis all sure fire HOF'ers. Saturday is one of the best centers of this decade. Manning had James for a while, Clark is one of the best TE's in football. Since 2005 the Colts D has been on average 14th best in the league in ypg. The Giants 15th best. Now if you wanna go by scoring D Peyton has had on average the 10.5 rated scoring D over those years and Eli has had the 19th rated scoring D. Advantage Peyton again. Peyton has had far superior offensive weapons. So you can't say Eli has had the better D because that is a false statement based on the stats.
 
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cincygrad

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Do a thought experiment......

What would happen if you removed Peyton Manning from the Colts?

What would happen if you removed Eli Manning from the Giants?

I predict the Colts would be much more impacted by Peyton's absence than the Giants would be by Eli's absence. That doesn't mean I don't respect Eli - I don't think they could win a championship without him. But I do think they would have competed for playoff births. Without Peyton, the Colts are doormats.
 

vancelot23

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I gave the scoring D numbers as far as the playoffs are concerned. Eli's has been better.
 

flamingrey

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Do a thought experiment......

What would happen if you removed Peyton Manning from the Colts?

What would happen if you removed Eli Manning from the Giants?

I predict the Colts would be much more impacted by Peyton's absence than the Giants would be by Eli's absence. That doesn't mean I don't respect Eli - I don't think they could win a championship without him. But I do think they would have competed for playoff births. Without Peyton, the Colts are doormats.

Bingo!

Peyton also makes his defense better than Eli makes his defense.
 

vancelot23

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We saw what happens to the Colts w/out Manning this year.
 

flamingrey

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Additionally, Peyton's regular season record blows Eli's away. Heck Eli got into the playoffs this season at 9-7. In the playoffs Peyton has had to consistently - and multiple times in every playoffs run - go against defenses the caliber of Pittsburgh and Baltimore. And when not them, he got to face off against Brady and even the very good defense they had for a few seasons. Eli has had it easy.
 

vancelot23

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Peyton has a few of those losses against Brady. Even his Super Bowl win was against a damn good Bears D.
 

Tubbs1518

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Please that Bears team Was led by Rex fucking Grossman. Regular season no doubt Peyton is the better QB, playoffs well the numbers speak for themselves. Eli has almost as many wins, the same number of SB (and maybe more soon) and as good numbers with far inferior offensive talent around him. To me your right it is a stupid debate because Eli wins easily.
 

Tubbs1518

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Even Colts fans admit PM withers somewhat in the playoffs versus his regular season play.
 

vancelot23

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That Bears team was led by their defense. The QB isn't the only player on the team. Eli only won his 1st Super Bowl because of the Giants D. He loses if Tyree doesn't make that ridiculous catch. That's a 1 in a million play. He got lucky. There is nothing to suggest Eli has "played better" in the playoffs.
 

vancelot23

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If his playoff numbers are withering, I wish our QB would wither.
 

Tubbs1518

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Rating is down 6-8 points from the regular season while elis is up 6. Easy to see, not sure why everyone has such a problem seeing it. Actually I do know. Because of his name and regular season success.
 

Tubbs1518

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Look up his regular season career rating vs. his career playoff rating dick.
 

Tubbs1518

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Many of those are from personal experience so IDK how you want those references and I surmise you will bitch about that.

This one isn't saying Peyton isn't necessarily clutch but he is admitting he doesn't play as well in the playoffs.

Is Eli more clutch than Peyton?
 

flamingrey

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LOL @ "withers" in the playoffs and quoting someone saying he doesn't play as well.

DUH!

In the regular season he has a wide range of defenses he plays against and stats tend to average out. In the playoffs, he's playing against the best defenses and worst case, good defenses. There's no averaging. It's no surprise his stats might drop, or he's not "playing as well".

Furthermore, to "wither" is suggestive of choking. Making bad decisions in the playoffs when in the regular season he would make a different decision on an identical play. Becoming less accurate - not percentage wise but in regards to ball placement - in the playoffs than regular season. Etc.

Simply not the case.
 
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