Nick Saban blocking transfers

[nddulac]

Mo Smith claimed he wanted to transfer to Georgia to pursue a degree in Public Health. Alabama has those courses available, the difference is Georgia calls it "Public Health Science".

Another difference is that Georgia has a graduate program in Public Health, while Alabama appears to offer none. And given that an NCAA requirement is enrollment in a graduate program, I think he could very easily make a pretty solid academic case for wanting to transfer.

 

[nddulac]

I am not sure of the exact wording, but I do know that they can block a transfer to a team inside the SEC if they so choose. Outside the SEC is another questions. Apparently it is possible to do so or Kirby would not have been able to block transfers to Miami.

I think that the NCAA rules allow a coach to block a graduate transfer for specific schools. Case in point, Notre Dame blocked Everett Golson from transferring to Texas last fall.

And again, I think the rule is BS and antithetical to the NCAA's stated goal of getting players to finish their degrees.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

This is why placing restrictions on graduate transfers is stupid and ethically indefensible.

I guess I will drop this in the "personal opinion" column and leave you to feel that way. My opinion is everything needs some form of rules to govern it, or someone will find a loophole to exploit it until you create one.

 

[4down20]

I think that the NCAA rules allow a coach to block a graduate transfer for specific schools. Case in point, Notre Dame blocked Everett Golson from transferring to Texas last fall.

And again, I think the rule is BS and antithetical to the NCAA's stated goal of getting players to finish their degrees.

Yeah, let the guy who knows all the secrets of the team go to a team they either play, or have a possibility of playing.

What's the worse that can happen?

 

[4down20]

Another difference is that Georgia has a graduate program in Public Health, while Alabama appears to offer none. And given that an NCAA requirement is enrollment in a graduate program, I think he could very easily make a pretty solid academic case for wanting to transfer.

He couldn't and didn't. And I'm not sure what the exact name for the classes are, but people who do seemed to indicate the differences in what the 2 schools offered was a matter of semantics.

Even with his mom in the media, no academic reasons were ever given for wanting the transfer, it all revolves around football. He wants more playing time so he has a better shot at the NFL.

But at any rate, the actual restrictions for the SEC is in regards to incoming grads, not outgoing.

 

[nddulac]

The SEC office also thought it was a bullshit reason for the transfer, but allowed it anyway under certain conditions. Basically, if Smith doesn't complete his degree and go to classes etc, Georgia will be penalized and won't be allowed any other grad transfers for the next few years.

I would have no problem with this being part of the graduate transfer rule.

You can't really penalize a school for a student failing to complete a degree, because attrition happens. But you can require that the graduate transfer be an actual grad student. I would support a rule like this that would focus on academics, and help prevent exploitation of the rules for purely athletic reasons. But to a priori assume that no one is interested in academic goals is wrong.

 

[nddulac]

Yeah, let the guy who knows all the secrets of the team go to a team they either play, or have a possibility of playing. What's the worse that can happen?

Oh well. The kid graduated. He earned the right to screw over his team if he wishes.

I think it would be a scumbag move, but I can't claim that it is okay to black the kid because of it.

 

[4down20]

I would have no problem with this being part of the graduate transfer rule.

You can't really penalize a school for a student failing to complete a degree, because attrition happens. But you can require that the graduate transfer be an actual grad student. I would support a rule like this that would focus on academics, and help prevent exploitation of the rules for purely athletic reasons. But to a priori assume that no one is interested in academic goals is wrong.

Not only can they penalize a school for it, they do. Graduation rate standards are the norm.

Oh well. The kid graduated. He earned the right to screw over his team if he wishes.

I think it would be a scumbag move, but I can't claim that it is okay to black the kid because of it.

No he didn't. How does graduating from college mean you can do whatever you want?

 

[nddulac]

Just for reference, here is what the NCAA says about graduate transfer waivers:

from NCAA Transfer Exceptions. College Transfer Waivers.

Graduate Transfer Waiver
The graduate transfer waiver is now typically used by athletes who have previous transferred once before and so cannot use the one-time transfer exception (even as a graduate student).

• A letter from the previous school saying it does not object to the student-athlete being eligible;
• Documentation that the student-athlete has been accepted into a specific graduate degree program;
• Documentation about whether that degree program is offered by the previous school;
  
• A student-athlete statement including the reasons for the transfer; and
• A statement from the previous institution about the student-athlete’s status on the team.

Generally the heart of the waiver is the three middle bullets. The NCAA wants to see that the student-athlete transferred in order to continue his or her academic career by pursuing a graduate degree not offered at the previous school.

 

[nddulac]

No he didn't. How does graduating from college mean you can do whatever you want?

I didn't say he could do whatever he wanted. But he did open the door to screw his old team by finishing his degree. My logic here is that the main goal of any student-athlete should be the completion of a degree. Anything that places athletics at a higher priority is flat out wrong.

For example, what if Texas wanted to hire him as a graduate assistant coach? (Now that I've mentioned that, look for Jim Harbaugh (whom I know reads the Hoop - sources) will look into this strategy.)

 

[nddulac]

Mo Smith claimed he wanted to transfer to Georgia to pursue a degree in Public Health. Alabama has those courses available, the difference is Georgia calls it "Public Health Science".

Thus, it was not deemed a valid reason for transfer.

This can not be accurate since he would fail to meet the NCAA requirements.

 

[4down20]

I didn't say he could do whatever he wanted. But he did open the door to screw his old team by finishing his degree. My logic here is that the main goal of any student-athlete should be the completion of a degree. Anything that places athletics at a higher priority is flat out wrong.

For example, what if Texas wanted to hire him as a graduate assistant coach? (Now that I've mentioned that, look for Jim Harbaugh (whom I know reads the Hoop - sources) will look into this strategy.)

The degree is what the schools offer the kids in exchange for their playing. Your logic is backwards and acts as if he is fulfilling some responsibility to the university by getting a degree.

It has nothing to do with ranking priorities, it's about having more than one responsibility. They are expected to make the best use of the scholarship and graduate, but that's not even close to their only responsibility.

Would you pay a contractor doing work for you early and then tell them - don't worry about finishing the job since you already got what you came to the job to begin with?

 

[4down20]

This can not be accurate since he would fail to meet the NCAA requirements.

As I've read, the differences in programs is a matter of semantics. I don't know directly.

 

[nddulac]

It's that whole still wanting to go to school elsewhere that gets them.

Actually, it's a) not wanting to play for their current team/coach or 2) helping another team that gets people's panties in a wad.

 

[nddulac]

The degree is what the schools offer the kids in exchange for their playing. Your logic is backwards and acts as if he is fulfilling some responsibility to the university by getting a degree.

This is just plain wrong. No one is promised a degree.

It is access to an education that is offered. The reason completion of a degree should end the deal is because the school no longer has anything meaningful to offer in return, because by their own measure, the athlete's education is completed.

 

[nddulac]

I guess I will drop this in the "personal opinion" column and leave you to feel that way. My opinion is everything needs some form of rules to govern it, or someone will find a loophole to exploit it until you create one.

I don't disagree with you on the need for rules. And it is fine to recognize my stance as a personal opinion and disagree. I can respect that.

In fact, I think that healthy rule changes result from discussions that allow for the exploration of divergent opinions. And those discussions need to be a continual on-going process since no one can anticipate every possible situation.

 

[4down20]

This is just plain wrong. No one is promised a degree.

It is access to an education that is offered. The reason completion of a degree should end the deal is because the school no longer has anything meaningful to offer in return, because by their own measure, the athlete's education is completed.

They are offered a scholarship and last I checked they are still being offered a scholarship.

If they aren't being offered a scholarship after getting that degree, then I 100% agree with you, they should be cut loose. If they are still being offered a scholarship, then restrictions should apply.

 

[nddulac]

If they aren't being offered a scholarship after getting that degree, then I 100% agree with you, they should be cut loose. If they are still being offered a scholarship, then restrictions should apply.

That is what I see as the root of what is wrong with college athletics. It places athletics at a higher importance than academics. That fine for professional sports, but not fine for college athletics.

 

[4down20]

That is what I see as the root of what is wrong with college athletics. It places athletics at a higher importance than academics. That fine for professional sports, but not fine for college athletics.

Because you can't have both?

Alabama won the national championship last year and at the same time had more players on the field who had already graduated than any other team in college football post season.

And they've done that 2 of the past 3 years.

You're simply creating a false dilemma that you have to have one or the other. Especially since nobody in their right mind even remotely thinks Smith transferred for academic reasons.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Set a precedent? So each situation will be identical? Last I checked each situation is not created equal and everyone deserves a fresh perspective. You act as if Saban had a choice in this once the kid was graduated, no longer part of the University system. He granted the release solely due to him no longer being affiliated with the university, no more, no less. He had no reason not to grant the release to the SEC for further consideration at that point.

As for what the kid wanted, I understand he wanted it, but he was told no by the coach and University. Him going public made the situation worse and makes him out to be a malcontent in many peoples eyes. Sorry, but you dont get to pitch temper tantrums and not look like a spoiled child, its simply not Adult to do so. He chose poor actions and now he looks foolish.

But that's just it. So does this mean every time a kid doesn't get a release of a waiver by Saban alls he has to do is disagree publicly and get his mom to have a 20 minute convo privately and the kid will be released because of being a "distraction"? That's an awful fine line.

You are right, Saban had no reason to not grant the release YET HE STILL DID. Only after the kid called him out on it and became a "distraction" did Saban give in.

I would say they both chose poor actions.