MLB Cap Challenge Semi-Final 2

[Nosferatu]

Every team was required to stay under the $110,000,000 salary cap.

Every player even if injured or on the DL is considered healthy for this.

Please vote for which team you think is better. Thank you...


TEAM THREE

Lineup
1. RF - Ben Zobrist (S)
2. SS - Troy Tulowitzki (R)
3. 1B - Freddie Freeman (L)
4. DH - Jose Bautista (R)
5. C - Jonathan Lucroy (R)
6. 3B - Josh Donaldson (R)
7. 2B - Josh Harrison (R)
8. LF - Brett Gardner (L)
9. CF - Coco Crisp (S)

Bench
C/DH - Derek Norris (R)
OF - Gregory Polanco (L)
1B/OF/DH - Steve Pearce (R)
SS - Brandon Crawford (L)

Starting Rotation
Max Scherzer (RHP)
Corey Kluber (RHP)
Jordan Zimmermann (RHP)
Scott Kazmir (LHP)
Chris Tillman (RHP)

Bullpen
LR - Wade Miley (LHP)
MR - Adam Ottavino (RHP)
MR - Danny Farquhar (RHP)
MR - Neal Cotts (RHP)
SU - Glen Perkins (LHP)
SU - Mark Melancon (RHP)
CL - Koji Uehara (RHP)

VS

TEAM ONE

LINEUP
1.Carlos Gomez (CF)
2.Jason Kipnis (2B)
3.Miguel Cabrera (3B)
4.David Ortiz (DH)
5.Hunter Pence (RF)
6.Devin Mesoraco (C)
7.Corey Dickerson (LF)
8.Anthony Rendon (3B)
9.Jean Segura (SS)

BENCH
Wilin Rosario (C)
Matt Adams (1B)
Kolten Wong (2B)
Emilio Bonifacio (UTL)
George Springer (RF)

ROTATION
1.Felix Hernandez (R)
2.Chris Sale (L)
3.Garrett Richards (R)
4.Madison Bumgarner (L)
5.Julio Teheran (R)

BULLPEN
Greg Holland (CL)
Alex Wood (L)
Brad Boxberger (R)
Fernando Abad (L)
A.J. Ramos (R)
Zach Duke (L)

 

[Nosferatu]

Lineup = THREE
Rotation = ONE
BULLPEN = ONE

 

[Darkstone42]

Lineup = THREE
Rotation = ONE
BULLPEN = ONE

Bullpen's debatable. Both are very good, I think THREE's is deeper with more valid late inning options. By pitcher WAR over the past two seasons, THREE's bullpen has the #1, #7, #8, #13, #14, and #20 bullpen arms.

ONE's rotation is better, though, and THREE's lineup is better, I agree with that.

 

[Pack 500]

3 has some nice underrated pitchers in that rotation

 

[Nosferatu]

Bullpen's debatable. Both are very good, I think THREE's is deeper with more valid late inning options. By pitcher WAR over the past two seasons, THREE's bullpen has the #1, #7, #8, #13, #14, and #20 bullpen arms.

ONE's rotation is better, though, and THREE's lineup is better, I agree with that.

The one thing for me is THREE drafted three closers for his pen, that should be frowned upon.

 

[Darkstone42]

The one thing for me is THREE drafted three closers for his pen, that should be frowned upon.

Why? Also, Melancon is only a closer because of circumstance. He's really a setup man.

My philosophy on relief pitching is that the closer is a stupid role. I would look to get the best matchups to win the game. If I had a clear best reliever, that guy would come in when the opponent's best hitters were up, even if it wasn't the ninth. So if I were to manage team THREE, Perkins would come in for the opponent's best lefties, and Uehara for the opponent's best righties. The rest of the guys would slot in as needed.

 

[Nosferatu]

Why? Also, Melancon is only a closer because of circumstance. He's really a setup man.

My philosophy on relief pitching is that the closer is a stupid role. I would look to get the best matchups to win the game. If I had a clear best reliever, that guy would come in when the opponent's best hitters were up, even if it wasn't the ninth. So if I were to manage team THREE, Perkins would come in for the opponent's best lefties, and Uehara for the opponent's best righties. The rest of the guys would slot in as needed.

Why? Why draft anything but closers then? If team Three didn't know the rules that's my fault but it has been talked about before that you cant just draft a pen full of closers.

Perkins has a lower BAA vs righties than he does lefties and as a Twins fan I don't think he would be nearly as successful pitching anything other than in a save situation. His BAA is more than 30 points lower in the 9th inning than any other inning.

 

[Darkstone42]

Why? Why draft anything but closers then? If team Three didn't know the rules that's my fault but it has been talked about before that you cant just draft a pen full of closers.

Perkins has a lower BAA vs righties than he does lefties and as a Twins fan I don't think he would be nearly as successful pitching anything other than in a save situation. His BAA is more than 30 points lower in the 9th inning than any other inning.

This year, yeah, he's been better against righties, but for his career, his platoon split is small, and favors him against lefties, because righties hit him for a good deal more power.

I've never really bought into the whole "closer's mentality" thing. And I wouldn't have an actual closer on my team if I were managing. If guys couldn't handle not getting "saves," they're not as good of pitchers as they thought. I'd also bat my best hitter second, not worry too much about speed in the leadoff spot, and send relievers out to start the next inning when the matchups made sense, so I probably wouldn't be hired by "traditional" baseball people.

I also hate the sacrifice bunt. Unless it's a pitcher. Ban the DH.

 

[Nosferatu]

This year, yeah, he's been better against righties, but for his career, his platoon split is small, and favors him against lefties, because righties hit him for a good deal more power.

I've never really bought into the whole "closer's mentality" thing. And I wouldn't have an actual closer on my team if I were managing. If guys couldn't handle not getting "saves," they're not as good of pitchers as they thought. I'd also bat my best hitter second, not worry too much about speed in the leadoff spot, and send relievers out to start the next inning when the matchups made sense, so I probably wouldn't be hired by "traditional" baseball people.

I also hate the sacrifice bunt. Unless it's a pitcher. Ban the DH.

The numbers I used for Perkins are his career numbers. I do put some stock into the closer thingy, some players just perform better when it's "on the line". I can't disagree about your leadoff and 2nd place hitter opinions, but for me high OBP and speed matter in the leadoff spot and a good contact hitter preferably from the left side in the two spot would work for me. I don't think either of us would be hired that's why we are here pretending we know what we are doing. I agree it's time to do away with the DH, and i'm an american league guy...

 

[Darkstone42]

The numbers I used for Perkins are his career numbers. I do put some stock into the closer thingy, some players just perform better when it's "on the line". I can't disagree about your leadoff and 2nd place hitter opinions, but for me high OBP and speed matter in the leadoff spot and a good contact hitter preferably from the left side in the two spot would work for me. I don't think either of us would be hired that's why we are here pretending we know what we are doing. I agree it's time to do away with the DH, and i'm an american league guy...

Perkins does have a higher BAA and OBPA against lefties, but his slugging allowed to righties is a lot higher than it is to lefties, and as a result, his wOBA allowed against righties is higher, and wOBA's a "get on base" heavy stat.

In somewhere between two and three times as many at bats for righties, he's given up over five times as many home runs. I didn't look at doubles and triples, but if he's giving up that many more long balls, it seems likely he'd be giving up more doubles, too.

I actually don't even care about hitter handedness, either, unless they have a big platoon split and are inept against like-handed pitchers. If they're good hitters, they'll hit.

 

[da55bums]

3's of is weaker, 1's MI is weaker, 1's lineup is stronger, 3's bullpen is stronger, 3's rotation is stronger

 

[Nosferatu]

3's of is weaker, 1's MI is weaker, 1's lineup is stronger, 3's bullpen is stronger, 3's rotation is stronger

 

[da55bums]

at best a dead Tie on SPs but, if I put money on the match ups...it came up 3-2 in favor of 3...1 matchup Zim v Bumgarner was the toughest one to pick.

 

[broncosmitty]

So bullpens can have legit starters? Cuz Alex Wood isn't a relief pitcher.....(I was annoyed with Dan Plesack as a setup man back in June. Im somewhat indifferent currently, but lets not be ridiculous. He's a starter. You know it, I know it and THE American people know it. Big adavabtage that couple weeks in daily leagues when he honestly was used in relief. Almost wade Davis level, but not quite. Definitely no Britton.)

 

[Nosferatu]

16 starts 11 games out of the pen, I think it's fair he's used as a spot starter long reliever.

 

[Nosferatu]

at best a dead Tie on SPs but, if I put money on the match ups...it came up 3-2 in favor of 3...1 matchup Zim v Bumgarner was the toughest one to pick.

Why you matching Zimmerman and Bumgarner? Zim is his 3 Bum is my 4. I could not disagree more with you on this one. If you matchup 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and so on, I believe I win all 5. Just my opinion though.

 

[da55bums]

I changed the rotation when I looked at it, I would have made Richards a number 5.Even if I leave it as is its at best 3 to 2 either way.


so your saying


Sale over Kluber-50/50
Bumgarner over Kazmir-no
Richards over Zimmerman-no


gets you the 5 out of 5?...fair enough, I just don't agree

 

[Darkstone42]

I'd say Hernandez > Scherzer, Sale < Kluber, Richards < Zimmermann, Bumgarner > Kazmir, and Teheran > Tillman, but every matchup is pretty close. Overall, a small advantage to ONE, but THREE's rotation is still really good.

 

[Nosferatu]

I'd say Hernandez > Scherzer, Sale < Kluber, Richards < Zimmermann, Bumgarner > Kazmir, and Teheran > Tillman, but every matchup is pretty close. Overall, a small advantage to ONE, but THREE's rotation is still really good.

No.

Sale 2.01 ERA 130 IP 150 SO's 91 Hits 0.885 WHIP 197 ERA+
Kluber 2.46 ERA 171 IP 187 SO's 148 Hits 1.072 WHIP 151 ERA+

And No.

Richards 2.54 ERA 159 IP 157 SO's 112 Hits 1.015 Whip 144 ERA+
Zimmerman 2.92 ERA 144 IP 130 SO's 146 Hits 1.154 Whip 127 ERA+

 

[Nosferatu]

But I do agree THREE does have a very good rotation.