MJ used Steroids?

[rmilia1]

As an FYI the 3 best single season turnarounds in NBA history that were led by first year players were the 1980 Boston Celtics who improved 32 games in Larry Birds rookie year,the 1990 San Antonio Spurs who improved 35 games in David Robinson rookie year and the 1999 San Antonio Spurs who improved 36 games in Tim Duncans rookie year ( although this one is slightly manufactured because the Spurs also returned Robinson from a season ending injury the year before ). Centers as it turns out ( looking at all the numbers ) tend to make the biggest difference in single season turnarounds which I guess makes sense since they add so many more dimensions to a team than guards do.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Not a valid comparison. When MJ retired the first time, the Bulls roster remained pretty much intact and Phil Jackson was still their head coach.

When Lebron left Cleveland, 7 other players and the head coach, also left. They went 19-63.

A more accurate comparison would be MJ's 2nd retirement. The Bulls lost their head coach and several other players along with MJ. In a strike shortened season, they finished 13-37.

So Jordan was only good enough to get his team 2 more wins the previous year?

1992-93...57 wins. Jordan quits....the next season the Bulls end with 55 wins.

Two of their main guys the Cavs lost was Big Z (or Shaq) and Mo Williams. That's comparable to losing Rodman and Pippen?

 

[trojanfan12]

So Jordan was only good enough to get his team 2 more wins the previous year?

1992-93...57 wins. Jordan quits....the next season the Bulls end with 55 wins.

Two of their main guys the Cavs lost was Big Z (or Shaq) and Mo Williams. That's comparable to losing Rodman and Pippen?

The Bulls won 57 games AND the NBA title in '92-'93. The following season with the same head coach and virtually the same roster, they won 55 games and LOST in the ECF.

When Lebron left Cleveland, 7 other players and their head coach left as well. That's nearly half the team and the head coach.

We don't know how Cleveland would have performed if the head coach and the rest of the roster remained intact, because it didn't happen.

Lebron leaving Cleveland isn't comparable to MJ's first retirement because it's not apple to apples, MJ's 2nd retirement is much closer to an apples to apples comparison.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

 

[BOTSLAYER]

In MJs first retirement of the players who played more than 18 mpg only Jordan and Armstrong left.

They were replaced by Steve Kerr and Toni Kukoc.

When LBJ left they lost Shaq, Ilgauskas, Telfair and West. Only West played 1500 minutes. They added Sessions and Baron Davis.

And isn't firing the coach supposed to improve a team?


For your argument's sake let's say that Old man Shaq, Igauskas, Telfair's 80 minutes and West is equal to MJ, Pippen, Longley and Rodman. They won 26% of their games while the Cavs won 30%. So yes in that case you are right.


All that being said it is pretty apples to apples. Not that has anything to do with this thread.

 

[Jims_Doors]

The Bulls won 57 games AND the NBA title in '92-'93. The following season with the same head coach and virtually the same roster, they won 55 games and LOST in the ECF.

When Lebron left Cleveland, 7 other players and their head coach left as well. That's nearly half the team and the head coach.

We don't know how Cleveland would have performed if the head coach and the rest of the roster remained intact, because it didn't happen.

Lebron leaving Cleveland isn't comparable to MJ's first retirement because it's not apple to apples, MJ's 2nd retirement is much closer to an apples to apples comparison.

Jordan was replaced by journeyman Pete Myers who started 81 of 82 games that season at SG and started all 11 playoff games.

LeBron was replaced by Jamison because JJ Hickson moved to the PF spot.

So I think it's safe to say (even if Shaq or Z stayed and Mo didn't get traded) that a starting line-up of Mo, Parker, Jamison, Hickson and Shaq would not have won only 2 less games (59) and would not have gotten to the ECF.......even with Brown still as HC.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I see this discussion was over almost as soon as it started because we have a lot of sensitive little bitches afraid something might tarnish their child hood hero's name leaving them incapable of having a rational discussion instead resorting to deflecting accusations and name calling.



This has nothing to do with LBJ. How many threads have been started blatantly condemning Wade, LBJ etc for using steroids and you can not even discuss the thought that a lot of signs point to MJ using as well.

And regardless of MJs off court issues and what ever else I do not consider MJ 1 or 2 of all time. I also do not think LBJ could do anything to pass the 2 centers ahead of MJ. Fact is centers dominate the game a way no non center can. LBJ has a slight chance to change that only because it is a center depleted league these days.

Yes it does - in your beady little mind - if you can discredit Michael Jordan, then Lebron will be considered the next greatest.

Not happening

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Yes it does - in your beady little mind - if you can discredit Michael Jordan, then Lebron will be considered the next greatest.

Not happening

Continuing to deflect I see and still just not getting it.

1st, don't you think that if MJ used PEDs that there is a significant increase in probability that Kobe, Wade, Dwight, LBJ etc used PEDs? So what am I out to spite MJ by sinking LBJ? Think past your irrational fanboy ness and just think.

2nd, MJ is not the GOAT, not even close imo. Which I have discussed at great lengths in many threads, so if you want to discuss that start a thread.


You think PEDs are horrible and evil but just like game fixing they exist and are probably very prevalent in the NBA.

 

[fredmccallyRTR]

I want to start this by saying that I personally have next to no moral issue with PEDs in a sport that does not consider them illegal. I do not think the NBA really thinks they are illegal because their suspensions are so few and far between they either do not test adequately or they do not suspend every body who tests positive. A rule not enforced for what ever reason is not a rule. (I will add that I think that PEDs should be tested for at every level with an increasing necessity the younger the athletes.)



This is obviously going to hit home for a lot of you and I doubt that many if any will respond rationally but let's try to see this with an open mind as it being a possibility.


Some mostly agreed upon generalities:

HGH and steroids are a very effective way to recover from physical activity, this is what allows muscles to be built faster. You can work out a lot more with more energy.

MJ was extremely competitive.

MJ was "difficult to get along with" as a teammate.

MJ had a receding hairline.

Steroids/HGH and PEDs in general were rampant in MLB in the 90s, most likely in several other sports as well and HGH still very much so in the NFL.

HGH has been abused by athletes since the 1960's.

Steroids were first synthesized in 1931 and was used by many, most notably the Governator.

Steroids can cause Roid Rage and receding hair line.

MJ played for a baseball team in the mid 90s.

MJ gained 21 pounds of lean muscle in 1 offseason with Tim Grover. To put that in perspective, if you are 5' 10" you would put on almost 19 pounds of lean muscle in 4 months...

Tim Grover trained Wade and Kobe, one of which is all but convicted of steroid use and the other which shows all the signs of steroid use.


Growth hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anabolic steroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How to Spot a Steroid User - Steroid Abuse .com

Human Growth Hormone (HGH) Side Effects

Attack Athletics

Welcome to the Michael Jordan Steroid Discussion Thread This thread exists to - Pastebin.com

Maybe, but using those standards I am on steroids. And Ive never even seen steroids in person.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

The Op wants this this to be so true...