Michael Raffl & Steve Downie

[Maverick426h]

I have to say, I think we're severely underutilizing one and overextending another. This opinion of mine is not just based on the last game, where it was glaringly obvious to me, but the last eight games altogether.

Plain and simple, Michael Raffl is not a fourth line player. He's doing a yeoman's job in that role, but he can handle a lot more. Steve Downie meanwhile is doing everything he can to inhibit or drag down that third line. All the guy does is lose battles, fail to receive/make passes and take the occasional bad penalty. On the rare occasion that he actually shoots the puck, he's never a threat to score. Quite honestly, he's fucking terrible right now. I haven't looked up any statistical facts to base this on, but if you know me well, I damn sure could (and I damn sure will if you'd like me to...lol).

My proposed solution to this minor quandary? Mind you, I only say minor because we're largely playing great hockey right now and that third line is still finding a way to click along without the help of one Steve Downie. I would switch the two in a heartbeat. Raffl was seen playing with Couturier and Read even at times last night and he actually made the line better. Downie is a cancer to that line right now. Either bench him or demote him in favor of Raffl, who has earned the chance to play with better linemates and get more ice time.

Hell, I would rather even bench Downie and dress Gus at this point. Then at least you're resting your defense for the stretch run and none of them are getting sick and tired of being a healthy scratch, thus keeping everyone sharp and ready to go.

Thoughts?

 

[lasgop8]

I have to say, I think we're severely underutilizing one and overextending another. This opinion of mine is not just based on the last game, where it was glaringly obvious to me, but the last eight games altogether.

Plain and simple, Michael Raffl is not a fourth line player. He's doing a yeoman's job in that role, but he can handle a lot more. Steve Downie meanwhile is doing everything he can to inhibit or drag down that third line. All the guy does is lose battles, fail to receive/make passes and take the occasional bad penalty. On the rare occasion that he actually shoots the puck, he's never a threat to score. Quite honestly, he's fucking terrible right now. I haven't looked up any statistical facts to base this on, but if you know me well, I damn sure could (and I damn sure will if you'd like me to...lol).

My proposed solution to this minor quandary? Mind you, I only say minor because we're largely playing great hockey right now and that third line is still finding a way to click along without the help of one Steve Downie. I would switch the two in a heartbeat. Raffl was seen playing with Couturier and Read even at times last night and he actually made the line better. Downie is a cancer to that line right now. Either bench him or demote him in favor of Raffl, who has earned the chance to play with better linemates and get more ice time.

Hell, I would rather even bench Downie and dress Gus at this point. Then at least you're resting your defense for the stretch run and none of them are getting sick and tired of being a healthy scratch, thus keeping everyone sharp and ready to go.

Thoughts?

Normally i would agree with this (because it is a valid point) or even that Downie would sit and we bring up Mcginn but our team is playing so well that i dont want to mess with the mojo.

 

[awaz]

Normally i would agree with this (because it is a valid point) or even that Downie would sit and we bring up Mcginn but our team is playing so well that i dont want to mess with the mojo.

yep, this. downie is pointless, but without raffl on the 4th line, your 4th line is pointless too. hall is a decent fourth liner, and rinaldo brings tons of energy, but raffl complimenting hall and rinaldo being 'OK' defensively, is what makes that line a very usable 4th line.

read and couturier have been covering for downie's flaws, which rounds the flyers roster out nicely. all 4 lines are usable.

 

[Maverick426h]

Normally i would agree with this (because it is a valid point) or even that Downie would sit and we bring up Mcginn but our team is playing so well that i dont want to mess with the mojo.

The mojo could be even better than it already is. I don't think that third line will be truly dominant until Downie either elevates his game to another level or gets benched in favor of someone who can assume more responsibility. Having already played on the top line and not looked out of place while still very adept defensively, Raffl is that guy.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Steve Downie's been horrible but Michael Raffl makes the fourth line as good as it is - he knows his role and he can move up at any point - there's no need to start jerking players back and forth on different lines when you're playing this well - just because Michael Raffl is on the fourth line doesn't mean there isn't opportunities where he can play more minutes

The hope is that Steve Downie can do something of significance the rest of the season and if he snaps out of this tough stretch he's been in, it will only make them better

 

[Cobiemonster]

The mojo could be even better than it already is. I don't think that third line will be truly dominant until Downie either elevates his game to another level or gets benched in favor of someone who can assume more responsibility. Having already played on the top line and not looked out of place while still very adept defensively, Raffl is that guy.

The mojo COULD be better but it COULD also make it worse - and lines are subjective anyways, later in games, they will play the best players - it's not about moving Michael Raffl around, it's about moving a struggling Steve Downie onto a line that is playing well - it doesn't always work well doing that

 

[lasgop8]

The mojo could be even better than it already is. I don't think that third line will be truly dominant until Downie either elevates his game to another level or gets benched in favor of someone who can assume more responsibility. Having already played on the top line and not looked out of place while still very adept defensively, Raffl is that guy.

I know in theory making that subtle move is right but like i said we are playing so good rolling all 4 lines right now i dont want to take a chance.

 

[flyersfan4706]

I wish Akeson would get the call in favor of Downie. I'd like a goal scorer with Couturier and Read.

Raffl is proving to be awesome, but like it's been already been pointed out if you take him off the 4th line it becomes nearly useless

 

[Cobiemonster]

I wish Akeson would get the call in favor of Downie. I'd like a goal scorer with Couturier and Read.

Raffl is proving to be awesome, but like it's been already been pointed out if you take him off the 4th line it becomes nearly useless

It would be interesting to have a scorer with those two guys, it would make that a really good line possibly

 

[flyersfan4706]

It would be interesting to have a scorer with those two guys, it would make that a really good line possibly

My free agency wish is Kulemin. That'd be an awesome third line

 

[Maverick426h]

We're so deep at the forward position that we don't even really need a fourth line, let alone an effective one. We have line 1, 2A and 2B. Yes, Raffl makes the fourth line better obviously, but I'd rather have a dominant third line in addition to the top two lines than a serviceable fourth line that gets used, but still fairly sparingly. Either way, this guy deserves to be playing on a better line, even when taking into consideration that Hall and Rinaldo have been decent for us at times. We're wasting the talent of Raffl on the fourth line and I'm sure this is why he did appear to spend some time on the third line in the last game. That said, Steve Downie is a tumor right now. Just wait until that third line starts struggling. He'll get dropped like a bad habit.

 

[Retroram52]

The quandry appears to be whether to concentrate already talented lines with even more talent or leave it as is to distribute team talent over several lines with the motive of either move to continue to improve the team that has demonstrated already that it has taken those performance steps without Raffl moving.

I perceive the former to be more of a risk in detriment to that fragile animal of team performance and success that we are now enjoying and the latter to be a contributing factor to disrupting it and perhaps the solution would be to sit Downie and replace him with someone who has Raffl-like attributes in Downie's place.

Who that person would be is debateable for sure and the question remains whether the move would really reap an even greater bounty in team success.

 

[awaz]

Raffl > Downie by leaps and bounds. But I'd rather have balance and 4 capable lines, than 3 loaded ones.

 

[Maverick426h]

I'll tackle all of you. Why? Because I've done it before.

 

[awaz]

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Bottom line is that for this team to win in the playoffs they will need to roll 4 lines. In order to do this Raffl is the best guy to center the 4th line. When they shorten the bench Chief is doing a great job of moving Raffl up to replace Downie so the lineup works. Plus Raffl kills penalties so he's fresher for that.

We also have to remember that players will slump from time to time but Downie did have some great success earlier in the season with Couturier and Read so it's not a complete disaster to keep him but he must agitate and stay out of the box!

In the big picture Downie won't be resigned and Laughton will be on this team. That should make the 3Rd and 4th lines better no matter who plays where. Right now this team is better with Raffl playing where he is and jumping around the lineup when needed...

 

[Vadered]

Downie's likely concussed; this might have solved itself.

 

[Maverick426h]

Sometimes I fucking get sick and tired of being so right.

With all due respect, this is a better team with Downie benched or injured. Now that third line is really humming along with mostly Raffl taking his place, but also a shift or two here and there with Rinaldo or Hall flanking Couturier.

 

[4thstreet]

]Downie's likely concussed;[/B] this might have solved itself.

He seems to play like he's concussed all the time.Either that,or the head up his ass syndrome.

 

[Maverick426h]

He seems to play like he's concussed all the time.Either that,or the head up his ass syndrome.

This was me in the last couple weeks, screaming at the tv for Downie to get his fucking head out of his ass. Yes, he was effective with Read and Couturier earlier in the season, but he's just been awful lately. The third line is better with especially Raffl, but also Rinaldo, Hall or whoever dresses in the vacant spot next game, even if it is Gus.