Left Tackle woes

[flyerhawk]

So what is the team going to do? This guy Tobin they brought from the Eagles doesn't sound like a solution at LT. And clearly the Hawks aren't willing to mortgage the future and bring in a legit starter.

So that means one of Odhiambo, Pocic or Joeckel are going to be our starting LT. That seems pretty terrifying to me.

I have to think that Joeckel moves to LT.

Ifedi better get his head out of is ass on the right side.

 

[JMR]

I listened to PC's presser yesterday. He was a bit vague and evasive, but it sounded to me like their #1 preference is to keep Joeckel at LG to allow the interior of the line to be set. How big of a drop will it really be from Fant to someone else? We're talking about a guy who has less than 1 year total of OL experience. It's not like we've lost Walter Jones here. I know the guy put in a lot of work in the off-season, gained valuable experience last year, and had the favor of the coaches, but we have a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder who can battle it out for the job. It's not an ideal situation for sure, but I don't think it's a huge disaster.

 

[Mariners_44]

I listened to PC's presser yesterday. He was a bit vague and evasive, but it sounded to me like their #1 preference is to keep Joeckel at LG to allow the interior of the line to be set. How big of a drop will it really be from Fant to someone else? We're talking about a guy who has less than 1 year total of OL experience. It's not like we've lost Walter Jones here. I know the guy put in a lot of work in the off-season, gained valuable experience last year, and had the favor of the coaches, but we have a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder who can battle it out for the job. It's not an ideal situation for sure, but I don't think it's a huge disaster.

I was gonna say, I appreciate the hard work Fant has put in but everyone needs to come back down to reality. Not since the year we won the SB have we invested much of anything into our line that was worth a crap, and have come to value mediocrity because we've come accustom to converts and practice squad lineman. IMO, even with Fant going down I like our line better this year than even last year. We have a much better interior than we've had in recent years, but it's still gonna be Russ running; it just won't be as pressing as usual.

 

[flyerhawk]

I felt our line was going to be better with Fant at LT. Odhiambo looked pretty lost against backups last Friday.

 

[JMR]

I felt our line was going to be better with Fant at LT. Odhiambo looked pretty lost against backups last Friday.

But he was also thrown in there stone cold. I am willing to see how he looks after a week of practice and going into the game knowing he's playing there.

 

[JMR]

Not since the year we won the SB have we invested much of anything into our line that was worth a crap, and have come to value mediocrity because we've come accustom to converts and practice squad lineman.

Well, Britt was a 2nd rounder in the draft after SB48 and now he just got a 2nd contract. Ifedi didn't have a great rookie year but it's way too early to give up on him as a 1st round pick. Odhiambo was also a 3rd rounder who hasn't yet gotten much of an opportunity. All of our starting linemen right now were acquired after the SB48 win, so let's see what they become before we decide they suck.

I sure hope this place doesn't turn into the Mariners board.

 

[flyerhawk]

But he was also thrown in there stone cold. I am willing to see how he looks after a week of practice and going into the game knowing he's playing there.

I'm not trying to be a sky is falling type person but I really think that losing Fant really hurts this squad.

I hope that Odhiambo can recover and be a near competent LT but I didn't see much to feel good about it Friday.

 

[Mariners_44]

Well, Britt was a 2nd rounder in the draft after SB48 and now he just got a 2nd contract. Ifedi didn't have a great rookie year but it's way too early to give up on him as a 1st round pick. Odhiambo was also a 3rd rounder who hasn't yet gotten much of an opportunity. All of our starting linemen right now were acquired after the SB48 win, so let's see what they become before we decide they suck.

I sure hope this place doesn't turn into the Mariners board.

First, there is absolutely no reason that this board should turn into the Mariners board; if you were referring to my post. The Hawks of the 90's, maybe. The franchise as it stands now and for the foreseeable future, not so much.

That being said, I was meaning financially. Outside of Britt we've allowed the few somewhat shining stars on the line go in Unger, Carp, Breno, and Sweezy rather than retaining their services. You're right in that we've drafted quite a few, but the Joeckel signing is the biggest financial investment since SB48. I think the fact that Fant loses a year of experience with the unit hurts the most, but the loss in terms of the present isn't as sky falling as the media and some have portrayed.

 

[Uhsplit]

First, there is absolutely no reason that this board should turn into the Mariners board; if you were referring to my post. The Hawks of the 90's, maybe. The franchise as it stands now and for the foreseeable future, not so much.

That being said, I was meaning financially. Outside of Britt we've allowed the few somewhat shining stars on the line go in Unger, Carp, Breno, and Sweezy rather than retaining their services. You're right in that we've drafted quite a few, but the Joeckel signing is the biggest financial investment since SB48. I think the fact that Fant loses a year of experience with the unit hurts the most, but the loss in terms of the present isn't as sky falling as the media and some have portrayed.

Shining stars?
I can't think of anyone that was against the Unger for Graham trade when it went down.
Carp was fat and lazy when he was here. I don't recall anyone griping about letting him walk when it went down.
Breno had many penalties (especially after the whistle), yet was a decent player but I do not remember fans throwing a fit when he was allowed to leave.
Sweezy was a great success story, but he signed for massive dollars that the team couldn't/wouldn't match.
Not mentioned was Okung. He who never played up to his draft status, held out for more $ as a rookie in the days of huge contracts to rookies who have never yet played an NFL down.
It is unfair to view 20-20 because decisions are made in the moment.

 

[Mariners_44]

Shining stars?
I can't think of anyone that was against the Unger for Graham trade when it went down.
Carp was fat and lazy when he was here. I don't recall anyone griping about letting him walk when it went down.
Breno had many penalties (especially after the whistle), yet was a decent player but I do not remember fans throwing a fit when he was allowed to leave.
Sweezy was a great success story, but he signed for massive dollars that the team couldn't/wouldn't match.
Not mentioned was Okung. He who never played up to his draft status, held out for more $ as a rookie in the days of huge contracts to rookies who have never yet played an NFL down.
It is unfair to view 20-20 because decisions are made in the moment.

You must not have read my previous thread where I stated that we have become accustom to mediocrity as a baseline with our line. Compared to most of the shuffled lines over the past 5 years, those to me were the shining stars. Once again, these guys don't shine on a lot of other teams but because of our ineptness on the line they shined for the Hawks. I didn't include Okung because I don't think he ever even shined as much as those other guys when considering his injuries and the expectations of being such a high draft pick.

 

[JMR]

I'm not trying to be a sky is falling type person but I really think that losing Fant really hurts this squad.

I hope that Odhiambo can recover and be a near competent LT but I didn't see much to feel good about it Friday.

I hear you, and I know you're not the sky-is-falling type, as you and I have fought the good fight against that crowd literally for decades.

It does suck that Fant went down, no question. I just don't have the opinion that it's something the team cannot reasonably recover from. I was definitely looking forward to seeing what kind of a leap Fant was going to make this year, but now the challenge is passed to whoever is taking his place. Nothing I can do about it, and odds are we will see more injuries along the line as the season goes. It's just what linemen do. I'm willing to give Odhiambo, Pocic, or whoever a chance to show what they have before declaring emergency.

 

[JMR]

First, there is absolutely no reason that this board should turn into the Mariners board; if you were referring to my post. The Hawks of the 90's, maybe. The franchise as it stands now and for the foreseeable future, not so much.

Not solely referring to your post. Just a general spike in negativity. It's so pervasive on the Ms board that I just quit going there a couple months back. Fair criticism is one thing, but treating every last setback like it's the end of the world and a personal affront just gets old.

That being said, I was meaning financially. Outside of Britt we've allowed the few somewhat shining stars on the line go in Unger, Carp, Breno, and Sweezy rather than retaining their services. You're right in that we've drafted quite a few, but the Joeckel signing is the biggest financial investment since SB48. I think the fact that Fant loses a year of experience with the unit hurts the most, but the loss in terms of the present isn't as sky falling as the media and some have portrayed.

Joeckel certainly is the biggest $$ on a free agent lineman since SB48, and many think we paid too much. Unger was a trade, so a bit of a different situation than all the free agent losses. Carpenter didnt do anything to warrant another contract here. Sweezy didnt even play in 2016 due to back issues that he probably had while he was here. It's just hard to find fault in the FO not bringing guys like those back. I didnt like seeing Giacomini leave, but I'm pretty meh on everyone else. We definitely couldnt sustain having the highest price OL like we did in 2013 when free agency loomed for RW, Bobby Wagner, MB, KJ Wright, ET, Kam, Sherm, Baldwin, etc.

 

[Mariners_44]

Joeckel certainly is the biggest $$ on a free agent lineman since SB48, and many think we paid too much. Unger was a trade, so a bit of a different situation than all the free agent losses. Carpenter didnt do anything to warrant another contract here. Sweezy didnt even play in 2016 due to back issues that he probably had while he was here. It's just hard to find fault in the FO not bringing guys like those back. I didnt like seeing Giacomini leave, but I'm pretty meh on everyone else. We definitely couldnt sustain having the highest price OL like we did in 2013 when free agency loomed for RW, Bobby Wagner, MB, KJ Wright, ET, Kam, Sherm, Baldwin, etc.

Once again, those guys were some of the best we had which proves my point that they were allowed to walk. This all goes back to my thoughts on losing Fant, we just lost a guy for the year that had a mediocre season last year. We were hoping for a big step from him, but losing him isn't like we just lost Walter Jones; which I think somebody else had previously mentioned as well. He was the planned LT, I get it. We are still in the preseason which allows the competition to open back up for a couple of more games before they start to count. The interior seems to be stronger than it has over the last few years so thats still an upgrade. Ultimately, I'm just not as worried as most I guess regarding the starting LT when we just lost a second year basketball player.

 

[JMR]

The interior seems to be stronger than it has over the last few years so thats still an upgrade. Ultimately, I'm just not as worried as most I guess regarding the starting LT when we just lost a second year basketball player.

Summarizes where I am as well. When we were at the height of the RW & Lynch years, those 2 were able to mask weaknesses in the line with their unique abilities -- RW to evade edge rushers and make big plays out of the pocket, Lynch with breaking tackles and just being one of the most difficult backs to bring down in the history of the game. It's not that the line was ever really that great, not even the one that was the most expensive in the league. I think we are back to our backfield being able to do a lot of that now that RW is healthy and the RB position appears to be very deep despite not having anyone individually as good as Lynch was from '12-'14.

 

[chf]

When we lost a second year basketball player.

Heh.

See that's just it, he was a basketball player who played LT in the NFL and managed to survive. So yeah, Pete is plenty bummed that they guy who came in STRONGER and maybe even more importantly, knew the position mentally (things slowed down), is now out.

He was always off the charts measurable wise, but he was out there THINKING all the time.

I think he had a chance to be very solid this year. Not all pro or anything, but real solid.

I too hope we can band-aid it, but given the age of the D stars, losing him this year hurts.

 

[JMR]

Tom Cable's description of the way ahead at LT after today's practice indicates it's 1 of 3 options: Odhiambo, Tobin, or Joeckel. Pocic not listed as an option, so it appears they're looking at him more on the right side. Odhiambo is going to get the start on Friday, so it sounds like it's his job to lose.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I guess maybe it's better that we lost a guy at a position we knew was going to be shaky anyway rather than guys on the interior who we believe are going to be much more solid.

Friday against KC will be telling as we'll have the first team O out there likely into the second half. Odhiambo worries me a lot out there considering he was bad enough against Atlanta in the playoffs at guard that they put an injured Ifedi back in briefly to replace him.

The other tackle position will be interesting too. Ifedi looked pretty damn slow out there against Minnesota on several occasions.

Guess we'll see what happens. Hopefully we see some improvement.

 

[uwdawgfan]

Im scared for Russel's life......

 

[JMR]

I guess maybe it's better that we lost a guy at a position we knew was going to be shaky anyway rather than guys on the interior who we believe are going to be much more solid.

Well, I think there was at least some hope that it would be a little better than "shaky" with experience gained last season and the work Fant put in over the off-season. It's better that it happened after game 2 than game 4 for sure. I do think they are banking on both a solid interior to boost the run game and on Russell's scrambling now that he's healthy to evade a leaker on the edge. Of course that all goes to pot if we see a repeat of last year's injuries.

Friday against KC will be telling as we'll have the first team O out there likely into the second half. Odhiambo worries me a lot out there considering he was bad enough against Atlanta in the playoffs at guard that they put an injured Ifedi back in briefly to replace him.

The other tackle position will be interesting too. Ifedi looked pretty damn slow out there against Minnesota on several occasions.

Guess we'll see what happens. Hopefully we see some improvement.

Yep, full dress rehearsal in 2 days. Not expecting OL greatness but improvement is imperative. Would like to see a little more out of the running game. Also not sure we need to see Russell throw 18 passes in the first half, but I guess there could be a pretty tough decision to make at WR.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Seahawks signed Matt Tobin from the Eagles and swapped a 5th for a 7th...



Matt Tobin Added To Offensive Line Group