LeBron to Phoenix

[tlance]

With James and Bledsoe, and even Dragic, the Suns could make things happen defensively on the perimeter with traps and rotations. Morris would only serve as a center in "small ball" lineups and favorable matchups. Plumlee isn't much of an offensive player, but the Suns wouldn't need much offense at center with James and Anthony on board.

Traps work fine against bad teams. You are not getting through the West playoffs with gimmicks.

 

[GMATCa]

I should note that Wojnarowski also notes that the second star to accompany James could be Bosh rather than Anthony.

Of course, none of this seems likely to me, but it's worth a shot.

 

[GMATCa]

Traps work fine against bad teams. You are not getting through the West playoffs with gimmicks.

I don't mean half-court traps so much as pick-and-roll traps. The occasional half-court trap with LeBron James, though, could be intimidating, especially against a weaker point guard.

 

[Logicallylethal]

im sorry, but this is gonna turn into the Peyton Manning/Cards crap all over again

anyone else remember when it was pretty much a "done deal" that he was signing here?

not saying this Lebron talk is close to that, but ill believe it when I see it

I remember that. Can you imagine if Peyton had come to the Cards with Fitz as his weapon and that defense behind him.

NFC West would have had the 3 best teams in the NFL

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I don't think LeBron wants to live in Phoenix..

Randy Johnson and Charles Barkley still both live here after playing in PHX... just food for thought. Scottsdale has turned into Hollywood #2 on the West Coast with tons of famous celebs residing there.

 

[johnson]

No way Lebron and the gang don't end up right back with the Heat. The Heat will do everything they can to make it happen and Lebron may have had no sense of loyalty to the Cavs, but the team that he ditched them for that got him those rings he wanted...he's not going to turn his back on them.

Heat drafted Napier for Lebron. All three seem willing to restructure.

Suns make more sense on many levels for Lebron, but we have a snowball's chance in hell. Still, I Like that our GM is going to try his best.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

At the end of the day, it's good to get the rest of the world talking about that possibility and about the Suns having a shot. The Suns FO is smart. They leaked this story on purpose and Woj was the best person to hand that info to from a national perspective.

Phoenix will get a star player in the next couple years, you can bank on that. They have so much young talent, draft picks and cap space. LeBron or not, we're in really good shape and in really good hands. Ryan McDonough is a god. Think about where this team was at this time last year... exactly.

 

[Jonas_steven]

For something that has 0% chance of happening, this thread blew up! I have a better chance of getting a blowie from Alice Eve than lebron answering the phone call from our front office!

 

[Jonas_steven]

At the end of the day, it's good to get the rest of the world talking about that possibility and about the Suns having a shot. The Suns FO is smart. They leaked this story on purpose and Woj was the best person to hand that info to from a national perspective.

Phoenix will get a star player in the next couple years, you can bank on that. They have so much young talent, draft picks and cap space. LeBron or not, we're in really good shape and in really good hands. Ryan McDonough is a god. Think about where this team was at this time last year... exactly.

Big D has turned this team around! He has given optimism to a fan base that legitimately questioned if we would win 20 games. He will make something happen over the next few years!

 

[GMATCa]

Wade and LeBron don't complement each other very well at all. They have been a championship team because they have been among the best defensively in the NBA, not because of their offensive chemistry.

Their offensive chemistry improved after their first year together. Moreover, the Heat ranked fifth in Offensive Rating (points scored per 100 possessions) this season and eleventh in Defensive Rating. In 2013, when Miami won its second straight championship, the Heat finished second in Offensive Rating and ninth in Defensive Rating. Miami proved much better at offense than defense the last two seasons.

LeBron needs catch and shoot players around him so that the defense has to leave shooters in order to help. It is pretty easy to leave guys like Wade, Bledsoe and Plumlee.

I disagree. Yes, Plumlee is a weak offensive player, but he is athletic and can roll to the rim. If he is setting the ball-screen for James in a half-court set spread by perimeter players, then a defender needs to account for Plumlee, or else he will roll all the way to the rim for a dunk.

I don't think that defenders could easily leave Wade, and I don't think that they will be able to easily leave Bledsoe. First, Bledsoe constituted a decent three-point shooter this past season at .357 (in a fairly large volume of 3.3 attempts per game), just below the league average of .360. Over the last two seasons, Bledsoe has shot a combined .372 on threes, and he could better that mark by playing with James and receiving more open, catch-and-shoot looks.

Second, with explosive, multitalented offensive players such as Wade and Bledsoe, the defense cannot just ignore them when they don't have the ball and allow them to float around and receive opportunities in ample space. Even if they are not great three-point shooters, they can put the ball on the floor and easily exploit a scrambling or sagging defense by pulling up for off-the-dribble jumpers inside the arc, or diving into the lane for runners, or attacking the rim. If ignored, they can also use their speed to cut without the ball, especially along the baseline, as Wade often did with James.

Take Kevin Johnson, for example, especially when he was playing with Barkley. K.J. did not shoot threes for most of his career, and although he could certainly catch-and-shoot, that function was not his most comfortable task because he had usually played with the ball in his hands (likewise, Steve Nash did not always seem comfortable in a catch-and-shoot role while playing off Kobe Bryant). But defenders could not just ignore K.J. and leave him in space because he possessed too much quickness and skill. If left alone, he could penetrate even more easily than usual, and he could also shoot pull-up jumpers off the dribble like nobody's business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dB_xKFIJgg

Now, Kevin Johnson constituted one of the best pull-up shooters in the game's history. Bledsoe cannot shoot like that, but then, neither can Wade. The reality, though, is that they can shoot off the dribble, and their overall combination of athletic ability and offensive skills means that they cannot be ignored. These guys are very difficult to stop off the dribble even when being closely defended; leave them alone, and you're really asking for trouble, provided that they possess respectable shooting ability off the dribble. In the case of Bledsoe, like Wade, that is the case.

And again, Bledsoe is a decent three-point shooter, anyway, with the potential to be better if playing with someone like James.

You need more than 2 shooters to put around LeBron if your group is going to be this weak defensively.

But why would the Suns be that weak defensively? The only bad defender in that lineup figures to be Anthony.

Also, Dragic can make shots, but he is hardly the type of catch and shoot player who thrives playing off of Lebron.

Actually, Dragic used to be much better as a catch-and-shoot guy. Much of what elevated his game to another level was that he recently improved dramatically at shooting off the dribble, something that used to constitute more of a weakness for him.

Bledsoe and Dragic struggled playing together at times last year

I guess that the matter depends upon your definition of "struggling." Overall, the Suns amounted to a much better team last season when both players were in the lineup.

now you want to add 2 more players who like to work in isolation. This does not look like a basis for a good offensive flow.

The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

The Suns would definitely be better with this group than they are now, but this is not a realistic scenario because there are other situations that make better fits for LeBron.

As I've said, I don't see this prospect as likely. But if James is interested in a younger, running team with upside, as opposed to an older, slower, aging club where he needs to carry an excessive share of the load, he will at least give Phoenix a look.

I don't expect him to become a Sun, but the pursuit would be worthwhile.

 

[The Derski]

I don't think LeBron wants to live in Phoenix..

Quality input.

 

[tlance]

Their offensive chemistry improved after their first year together. Moreover, the Heat ranked fifth in Offensive Rating (points scored per 100 possessions) this season and eleventh in Defensive Rating. In 2013, when Miami won its second straight championship, the Heat finished second in Offensive Rating and ninth in Defensive Rating. Miami proved much better at offense than defense the last two seasons.



I disagree. Yes, Plumlee is a weak offensive player, but he is athletic and can roll to the rim. If he is setting the ball-screen for James in a half-court set spread by perimeter players, then a defender needs to account for Plumlee, or else he will roll all the way to the rim for a dunk.

I don't think that defenders could easily leave Wade, and I don't think that they will be able to easily leave Bledsoe. First, Bledsoe constituted a decent three-point shooter this past season at .357 (in a fairly large volume of 3.3 attempts per game), just below the league average of .360. Over the last two seasons, Bledsoe has shot a combined .372 on threes, and he could better that mark by playing with James and receiving more open, catch-and-shoot looks.

Second, with explosive, multitalented offensive players such as Wade and Bledsoe, the defense cannot just ignore them when they don't have the ball and allow them to float around and receive opportunities in ample space. Even if they are not great three-point shooters, they can put the ball on the floor and easily exploit a scrambling or sagging defense by pulling up for off-the-dribble jumpers inside the arc, or diving into the lane for runners, or attacking the rim. If ignored, they can also use their speed to cut without the ball, especially along the baseline, as Wade often did with James.

Take Kevin Johnson, for example, especially when he was playing with Barkley. K.J. did not shoot threes for most of his career, and although he could certainly catch-and-shoot, that function was not his most comfortable task because he had usually played with the ball in his hands (likewise, Steve Nash did not always seem comfortable in a catch-and-shoot role while playing off Kobe Bryant). But defenders could not just ignore K.J. and leave him in space because he possessed too much quickness and skill. If left alone, he could penetrate even more easily than usual, and he could also shoot pull-up jumpers off the dribble like nobody's business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dB_xKFIJgg

Now, Kevin Johnson constituted one of the best pull-up shooters in the game's history. Bledsoe cannot shoot like that, but then, neither can Wade. The reality, though, is that they can shoot off the dribble, and their overall combination of athletic ability and offensive skills means that they cannot be ignored. These guys are very difficult to stop off the dribble even when being closely defended; leave them alone, and you're really asking for trouble, provided that they possess respectable shooting ability off the dribble. In the case of Bledsoe, like Wade, that is the case.

And again, Bledsoe is a decent three-point shooter, anyway, with the potential to be better if playing with someone like James.



But why would the Suns be that weak defensively? The only bad defender in that lineup figures to be Anthony.



Actually, Dragic used to be much better as a catch-and-shoot guy. Much of what elevated his game to another level was that he recently improved dramatically at shooting off the dribble, something that used to constitute more of a weakness for him.



I guess that the matter depends upon your definition of "struggling." Overall, the Suns amounted to a much better team last season when both players were in the lineup.



The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.



As I've said, I don't see this prospect as likely. But if James is interested in a younger, running team with upside, as opposed to an older, slower, aging club where he needs to carry an excessive share of the load, he will at least give Phoenix a look.

I don't expect him to become a Sun, but the pursuit would be worthwhile.

I agree with most of this and I do think it would be a good team.

I do think however, that you are attributing too much of the Heat's offensive success to Wade and LeBron working well together. There were a lot of pieces on those teams that did fit very well with LeBron's game. Chalmers, well not very good, is a PG who can make shots and does not need the ball. Bosh has developed into a spot up shooter. Miller and Allen were great shooters off the bench who played well without the ball. Battier, while not a great shooter, does a good job spreading the floor and understands how to move the ball. While the Suns could add some more pieces like this, it does not change the fact that Wade and LeBron do not complement each other's games as well as they could. Nor would Lebron and Bledsoe.

The Heat offensive stats look so positive because of all the shooting options that the Heat surrounded LeBron with. Two years ago in the playoffs, all of their best offensive lineups occurred with Wade on the bench. This year, they did very well against the mediocre teams in the East, but against the Spurs, there was no answer. LeBron could not get to the rim because the defense was able to clog the paint with impunity.

There are better fits out there, including a re-tooled Heat, so all of this is moot.

 

[nogicat]

I agree with things both Sting and Davis are trying to say.
Sting is right in the fact that we would be dumb to not go for it just because of the way the lineup would be setup; however Davis is right in the fact that there would be trouble with ball movement.
I personally think they should try and make a pitch to get Bosh and Lebron to come out here together instead of Melo.
Theres your big guy that doesnt necessarily need the ball to be successful all the time.
PG/SG Dragic
PG/SG Bledsoe
SF Lebron
PF Bosh
C Plumlee
(Ask the Heat the past few years if you need a solid 5 to win a title)
This league is all about stars but Melo is the awkward piece here in the reports I agree.
Morris twins, Green, Warren, Ennis and others coming off the bench
Possibility of Tucker and Frye Returning
Lose Ish and Christmas and boom we got a great team with crazy depth, and still those three picks in 2015.

 

[Davis_Mike]

I am fine with Lebron being on the team paired with anyone but Melo/Wade. I do not want Melo on any team I root for & signing him would force me to stop rooting for that team. He is a ball stopper. An anti-ball movement player & can't guard anyone.

 

[The Derski]

Dream scenario would be Lebron and Love.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I am fine with Lebron being on the team paired with anyone but Melo/Wade. I do not want Melo on any team I root for & signing him would force me to stop rooting for that team. He is a ball stopper. An anti-ball movement player & can't guard anyone.

LeBron is the one player in the league that has the power to make Melo more of a team player, imo. Do you know how many open looks he'd get with Dragic, Bledsoe and Bron driving and creating for him? If he could accept a role in which he becomes more of a knockdown shooter (which he does really well) then I think it could work.

He'd have to sacrifice having the ball in his hands all the time to make it work, but if he joined LeBron, I think we'd see a different player.

And with how up and down and open/free Hornacek's offense is... I think Melo and LeBron would still be able to both get theirs.

 

[johnson]

The NBA isn't in session when it's unbearable to live in AZ. There isn't a better place to be during the non-summer seasons. He lived in Cleveland for many years...pretty sure he'd be okay here. He's definitely one guy that can afford a summer house somewhere else if the heat (no pun intended) got to him in the off-season.

The bad news is Lebron isn't taking personal meetings the first few days of FA and is focusing on negotiation with the heat. His agent is taking calls and meetings, but we all know Lebron isn't doing anything where he doesn't do a personal meet and greet with the main players of another team. We just have to hope the Heat fail.

 

[Orange602]

The NBA isn't in session when it's unbearable to live in AZ. There isn't a better place to be during the non-summer seasons. He lived in Cleveland for many years...pretty sure he'd be okay here. He's definitely one guy that can afford a summer house somewhere else if the heat (no pun intended) got to him in the off-season.

The bad news is Lebron isn't taking personal meetings the first few days of FA and is focusing on negotiation with the heat. His agent is taking calls and meetings, but we all know Lebron isn't doing anything where he doesn't do a personal meet and greet with the main players of another team. We just have to hope the Heat fail.

I'm hoping for either Wade or Bosh to refuse to take the necessary pay cuts in order to give Lebron a max deal and fill out the Heat roster. A couple of hurt feelings could tear the big 3 apart.

 

[GMATCa]

I am fine with Lebron being on the team paired with anyone but Melo/Wade. I do not want Melo on any team I root for & signing him would force me to stop rooting for that team. He is a ball stopper. An anti-ball movement player & can't guard anyone.

... not to say that the past should define the future, but this description was also true of Charles Barkley. (Yes, Barkley constituted a great passer, but he was also a ball-stopper and an anti-ball movement player.)

Like you, I don't care for Anthony as a player, and his overall value is grossly overrated. But right now, and possibly for the foreseeable future, the Suns amount to just another team in the deep Western Conference. They made a dramatic leap forward to respectability, and a healthy Bledsoe may result in a playoff berth. But to become a legitimate championship contender, they may need to make a major move.

Personally, I like the idea of being aggressive with the process. I probably would not sign Anthony by himself, but as the cost of acquiring James, I would accept him. After all, he can't hold the ball as much if James is on the court.

 

[GMATCa]

I agree with most of this and I do think it would be a good team.

I do think however, that you are attributing too much of the Heat's offensive success to Wade and LeBron working well together. There were a lot of pieces on those teams that did fit very well with LeBron's game. Chalmers, well not very good, is a PG who can make shots and does not need the ball. Bosh has developed into a spot up shooter. Miller and Allen were great shooters off the bench who played well without the ball. Battier, while not a great shooter, does a good job spreading the floor and understands how to move the ball. While the Suns could add some more pieces like this, it does not change the fact that Wade and LeBron do not complement each other's games as well as they could. Nor would Lebron and Bledsoe.

The Heat offensive stats look so positive because of all the shooting options that the Heat surrounded LeBron with. Two years ago in the playoffs, all of their best offensive lineups occurred with Wade on the bench. This year, they did very well against the mediocre teams in the East, but against the Spurs, there was no answer. LeBron could not get to the rim because the defense was able to clog the paint with impunity.

There are better fits out there, including a re-tooled Heat, so all of this is moot.

No, I totally understand the value of Miami's shooting and floor spacing, similar to what Mike D'Antoni and Alvin Gentry provided for Steve Nash. But the difference is that LeBron James has been posting the best statistics in the NBA for about nine seasons now, and he has not always enjoyed near-wall-to-wall three-point shooting around him. In 2012, for instance, James was the MVP of the league with Joel Anthony starting at center for most of the season. As I noted earlier in the thread, Miami ultimately defeated Boston and Oklahoma City late in the season by shifting to a small lineup with Bosh (or even Udonis Haslem) at center and an extra shooter (Battier) on the floor. But if the Suns need to consider a lineup change deep in the playoffs in order to win a championship with James, they could cross that bridge at that juncture. For now, just consider that if Dragic enjoyed a great season in the same lineup as Bledsoe and Plumlee, what would stop James?

As for this year's NBA Finals, James still averaged 28.2 points (even with the cramping episode at the end of Game One) on an incredible .571 field goal percentage. I concur that he did not seem to attack the basket as explosively, but that result may have partly stemmed from the way that his three-point shot was falling during the series. He shot .519 on threes in 5.4 attempts per game, finishing the Finals with an absurdly high .679 True Shooting Percentage. And while I would need to go back and study the games to state something more conclusive, part of the reason why there was less floor spacing may have had to do with the presence of Boris Diaw. As Popovich noted, Diaw allowed the Spurs to play "big and small" simultaneously. Thus the Spurs enjoyed the versatility of a fourth player with perimeter skills around Duncan (or Splitter), while also forcing Miami into more lineups where Chris Andersen (instead of Battier) needed to join Bosh. And with Andersen's presence came less floor spacing.

Overall, I feel that what hurt the Heat most was that its ball movement and energy just could not match San Antonio's and thus better allowed the Spurs to close driving gaps. Ironically, I felt that Dwyane Wade, although no longer "Flash" or anywhere near as explosive as he used to be, got to the paint and to the rim quite a bit. He just could not finish late in the series.

Back to James, though, remember that in '05-'06, he averaged 31.4 points and 6.6 assists when his starting guards were basically non-shooters: Eric Snow at point guard and Larry Hughes or Ronald "Flip" Murray at shooting guard.

2005-06 Cleveland Cavaliers Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

I know that James is not twenty-one any longer, but he is still extremely explosive and he does not exactly need to be surrounded by four guys who are above-average shooters from twenty-three to twenty-five feet in order to dominate the game.

James and Bledsoe, like James and Wade, may not complement each other perfectly. That doesn't mean, however, that they could not complement each other effectively enough. Indeed, one could also argue that what happened to Miami this past season is that the Heat became so enamored with the notion of surrounding James (and Wade) with catch-and-shoot three-point shooters that the team lost sight of the need for more versatile and creative offensive players who could also attack the basket and reduce James' burden. You want to find a happy medium, and this proposed Phoenix lineup could provide it.