Joey Bosa...not signed, which side do you fall?

[NWPATSFAN]

He passes through waivers first with his current contract. If no one claims him, then he can negotiate a contract without restrictions.

The Chargers want off-set language to prevent Bosa from double dipping. First round contracts are basically guaranteed. Having off-set language means that the if team that drafted the player cuts him, that team will only pay the difference in salary from his new team.

 

[night]

The crux here is HOW his $17 mil bonus will be paid out...he wants it in lump sum, the Chargers apparently want to spread it out, one at signing and the other in March...two payments.

I was on record not being the biggest Bosa guy pre-draft, but irrelevant here. If ALL of the other 1st rd picks are getting their bonus in lump sum, I'm with Bosa...gimme it all now.

If that's not the norm...some teams do and some teams don't, I'm with the team...rookies don't dictate here.

Your thoughts?

Bosa is being pretty reasonable. The Chargers aren't doing themselves any favors trying to be cheapskates with a prospect they clearly went out of their way to get at #3 overall.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Sure smells like BS on the part of the Chargers.

 

[TP76]

Time to get beyond Y2K. Spanos is wealthy and I'm sure he gets his way 99% of the time, so he expects everything to go the way he wants it to go. Problem is, times, they are a changin' and you best adapt or you'll always be looking at someone else's rear view mirror.

Just suck it up and pay the guy. He ain't going to give you the chance to cut him to save $7M.

Dean Spanos is a relative pauper compared to his fellow owners. Alex Spanos (in his 90's - severe dimentia) is worth $1.6B, owns 97% of the Chargers which is worth $1.1B. So, the Spanos family has about $500Million in assets between all of the Children (Dean, Michael, Alexis & Dea)

 

[NinerSickness]

 

[ATL96Steeler]

On the Joey Bosa holdout, I call bullsh*t

This article breaks it down pretty well. If it's accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), it sounds like the Chargers are screwing this up. Which isn't really surprising when you're dealing with Dean Spanos.

Great find.

If the article is accurate, essentially all rookie contracts seem to have this offset language as a standard and it's a top 5 pick situation to have it removed vs the Chargers in-house MO.

That makes it a tougher call, but I still would side with the team. Even though its shitty way of doing business from the player standpoint, regardless of what other teams do, they should have the right to run their team the way they want to run it.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Bosa is being pretty reasonable. The Chargers aren't doing themselves any favors trying to be cheapskates with a prospect they clearly went out of their way to get at #3 overall.

After reading more into this...(thanks to a link from Bronco6482) yeah, the Chargers are being cheap skates, but if offset language is a standard in rookie contracts (and it appears to be) and it's sort of an unwritten rule to remove it for top 5 picks...I would support the team if their MO is they don't remove it. Crappy way of doing biz imo, but they should have the right to run in it a crappy fashion.

IDT Rivers had it removed either...if that's true, I don't expect them to remove it for Bosa.

 

[GeekSportsFan]

The crux here is HOW his $17 mil bonus will be paid out...he wants it in lump sum, the Chargers apparently want to spread it out, one at signing and the other in March...two payments.

I was on record not being the biggest Bosa guy pre-draft, but irrelevant here. If ALL of the other 1st rd picks are getting their bonus in lump sum, I'm with Bosa...gimme it all now.

If that's not the norm...some teams do and some teams don't, I'm with the team...rookies don't dictate here.

Your thoughts?

The Chargers need to swallow their pride and give him the money. The Spanos family are horrible owners as evidenced by previous personel decisions, ala Eric Weddle and Marty S. The fact that they chose former GM AJ Smith over Marty S., after a 14-2 season, only solidified the insanity taking place in the Chargers' front office.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The Chargers need to swallow their pride and give him the money. The Spanos family are horrible owners as evidenced by previous personel decisions, ala Eric Weddle and Marty S. The fact that they chose former GM AJ Smith over Marty S., after a 14-2 season, only solidified the insanity taking place in the Chargers' front office.

I don't really disagree, but I do support their right to run the team as they see fit...as crappy as that might be...Schott was a good coach, but could never win the big games...at some point the talent started getting old I would have to assume.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I find it curious that the last 3 first round players to sign are all with the same agent. I can't put all the blame on the Chargers

Common thread...could be something to that.

The Steelers FO don't care much for Condon...which means he's probably not a bad agent to have if you're a player...lol.

 

[fordman84]

I tend to side with the player. The teams are GREAT at the PR game and getting everything to sound like the player is greedy. So I lean towards blaming the team when there is a contract issue. The exception is a holdout of a contract that is already signed.

 

[Balljim55]

Common thread...could be something to that.

The Steelers FO don't care much for Condon...which means he's probably not a bad agent to have if you're a player...lol.

I understand that. I think Agents can be put in a tough place when trying to get the most for their players so that they can attract top players in the future. The offset language is in almost all contracts and in my opinion is not worth holding out for. The delayed bonus is meh. It is guaranteed and I see no issue with taking part now and the rest in March.
The bottom line is holding out is never good for a new player or the team. Both sides just need to get this shit done. Keep the offset but pay his full bonus now. If you can't afford to do that you have no business owning an NFL team.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The way I understand it, if Bosa gets cut, the Chargers can nix the second installment of the bonus.

Ever wonder why they've been a crap franchise over the years... look no further than ownership.

If that is true, while highly unlikely they would release him that quickly, I can understand why he's holding out.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I understand that. I think Agents can be put in a tough place when trying to get the most for their players so that they can attract top players in the future. The offset language is in almost all contracts and in my opinion is not worth holding out for. The delayed bonus is meh. It is guaranteed and I see no issue with taking part now and the rest in March.
The bottom line is holding out is never good for a new player or the team. Both sides just need to get this shit done. Keep the offset but pay his full bonus now. If you can't afford to do that you have no business owning an NFL team.

Think the reason most top 5 teams drop the offset language is because they know they're not going to cut the player that quickly...so I would be more willing to drop that.

On the bonus...yeah, cash flow is cash flow and not every owner wants to off load that much at one time...imo a compromise would be instead of March for the 2nd pymt, go with Dec so the player does get it all in during the season.

 

[fordman84]

Think the reason most top 5 teams drop the offset language is because they know they're not going to cut the player that quickly...so I would be more willing to drop that.

On the bonus...yeah, cash flow is cash flow and not every owner wants to off load that much at one time...imo a compromise would be instead of March for the 2nd pymt, go with Dec so the player does get it all in during the season.

I don't get the offset language issue. If you are a first round guy that is cut during his rookie contract, then if you do latch on with another team it is not going to be for big money. So now you are talking about fighting over basically the 2 or 3 year vet minimum. If you really dislike a player and feel someone else might sign him, then trade him for a 7th rounder in the 2029 NFL draft and ship his contract to them. Or if no one bites, it's because they only want the guy if he is on a minimum contract.


Does the offset reduce the cap hit for the team that cut the player? I can't imagine not having your guy in practice over a few hundred thousand bucks, especially if you thought he was so "can't miss" you took him #3 overall.

 

[fordman84]

Think the reason most top 5 teams drop the offset language is because they know they're not going to cut the player that quickly...so I would be more willing to drop that.

On the bonus...yeah, cash flow is cash flow and not every owner wants to off load that much at one time...imo a compromise would be instead of March for the 2nd pymt, go with Dec so the player does get it all in during the season.

I wonder if at any point the team has made an off-the-cuff comment to the player or agent along the lines of "we don't trust Joey with that much cash at once" and that has pissed him off. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd gladly take just a million right now and the rest in 6 months.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Wrong. Other teams drafting players high do not do this.

6 of the top 10 teams require at least the offset language.

Battle over offset language still lingers in top-10 contracts


So, no, not completely wrong. Using that as a basis, you figure at least even more teams use it as they get lower into the draft as the chances increase of players not sticking the longer you go. As is the usual flow, offset is included, and bonuses are paid out over a span of several years in the form of guaranteed roster bonuses that have to be paid out earlier in the year.

Seems to me that this has been the norm for several years now as this is from 2014

Offset language is likely a dead issue

Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying this is how teams have been operating for some time. Yes, some teams have relented. We'll see how it continues to move going forward, but I think it's quite ridiculous that this is keeping Bosa out of training and getting reps he needs. He's going to get paid one way or another, so again...put your big boy pants on and go play ball.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't get the offset language issue. If you are a first round guy that is cut during his rookie contract, then if you do latch on with another team it is not going to be for big money. So now you are talking about fighting over basically the 2 or 3 year vet minimum. If you really dislike a player and feel someone else might sign him, then trade him for a 7th rounder in the 2029 NFL draft and ship his contract to them. Or if no one bites, it's because they only want the guy if he is on a minimum contract.


Does the offset reduce the cap hit for the team that cut the player? I can't imagine not having your guy in practice over a few hundred thousand bucks, especially if you thought he was so "can't miss" you took him #3 overall.

I don't totally understand the offset language but it might be a little more than vet min...depends on why the player got cut I guess.

What I do understand...$17 mil bonus gets prorated over 4 yrs...if they cut the player in year 3, $4.25 mil is still on the cap books...for a top 3 pick...say he signs a $3 mil deal for 2 yrs...with the offset the drafting team is on the hook for only $1.25mil for his 4th yr on their cap instead of the full $4.25mil.

 

[fordman84]

I don't totally understand the offset language but it might be a little more than vet min...depends on why the player got cut I guess.

What I do understand...$17 mil bonus gets prorated over 4 yrs...if they cut the player in year 3, $4.25 mil is still on the cap books...for a top 3 pick...say he signs a $3 mil deal for 2 yrs...with the offset the drafting team is on the hook for only $1.25mil for his 4th yr on their cap instead of the full $4.25mil.

Has anyone done any research and published the numbers of the players who are cut in their rookie contract who sign with another club to see how much the original club would have saved? Is offset just for 1st rounders? I can't remember many 1st rounders cut that resign for big deals.

 

[ellupo]

I don't really disagree, but I do support their right to run the team as they see fit...as crappy as that might be...Schott was a good coach, but could never win the big games...at some point the talent started getting old I would have to assume.

They do have that right but Bosa also has the right to not sign a contract he does not agree with.