Jim Harblows call to avoid shutout

[SeattleOspreys]

I kept reading for the past month of what a great coach Harblow is but after Sunday night
we should all re-evaluate that adjective. Good, sure, Great, not!

Harblow didn't have his team ready to play. Harblow didn't implement a sideline card system to
ease the noise and pressure on Kaep. Harblow was as scared as Kaep looked under center.

Not sure if this has been discussed but the play of the game when Harblow basically waved the
white flag. How can you kick a fg in a paramount game that you're trailing 12-zip and need to
steal momentum? How many were saying kick the field goal, Jimmy, kick it when the 9ers were
at the 4 with 4 minutes and change left in the 3rd qtr? I know I was and was ecstatic when he did.
This isn't 20/20.

Scared money doesn't make money. Scared NFL play calling doesn't win games against your new
rivals.

Harbaugh assumed by kicking the fg, he'd get his team on the board and cut it to 9 points. I'm thinking, sure, we go kick a fg and it's back to a 2 - TD game Harblow (15-3).

A great coach with some ballz and confidence in his O and D, goes for the TD, the jugular in an attempt
to make it a 12-7 game, grab momentum and turn the battle into a 1 TD game. Now if the Hawks go kick
a fg (15-7) then it's still a TD and a 2 pt conversion game. If you don't get the TD, you still have the Hawks backed up near the goal line and you bring the heat and force Hawks
to punt back and go for the block.



To me, that was a simple decision a great coach would go for. Instead, kicking a fg just to say
we put something on the board wasn't good enough. Not on the road, not in a hostile environment. A great coach pulls out all the stops, makes the big time calls to win a paramount game and
doesn't settle for the conservative chip shot FG to just "get on the board". The Hawks kept momentum with that fg.

He's a good coach but how do you get blistered back to back in Seattle?
Last year it was the long flight back from Boston. This time?

Harblow blew it and is likely now .

 

[France_Steve]

Although I am sick of the all the Niner talk on this board, I will chime in. Harbaugh is still a great coach. I can't stand him but one loss doesn't make him a bad coach all of a sudden. I think the answer is very obvious. Right now Seattle at home is the best team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what system you implement, who the coach is, whatever. A great team combined with the biggest home field advantage is too much to overcome.

 

[RoboticDreams]

I kept reading for the past month of what a great coach Harblow is but after Sunday night
we should all re-evaluate that adjective. Good, sure, Great, not!

Harblow didn't have his team ready to play. Harblow didn't implement a sideline card system to
ease the noise and pressure on Kaep. Harblow was as scared as Kaep looked under center.

Not sure if this has been discussed but the play of the game when Harblow basically waved the
white flag. How can you kick a fg in a paramount game that you're trailing 12-zip and need to
steal momentum? How many were saying kick the field goal, Jimmy, kick it when the 9ers were
at the 4 with 4 minutes and change left in the 3rd qtr? I know I was and was ecstatic when he did.
This isn't 20/20.

Scared money doesn't make money. Scared NFL play calling doesn't win games against your new
rivals.

Harbaugh assumed by kicking the fg, he'd get his team on the board and cut it to 9 points. I'm thinking, sure, we go kick a fg and it's back to a 2 - TD game Harblow (15-3).

A great coach with some ballz and confidence in his O and D, goes for the TD, the jugular in an attempt
to make it a 12-7 game, grab momentum and turn the battle into a 1 TD game. Now if the Hawks go kick
a fg (15-7) then it's still a TD and a 2 pt conversion game. If you don't get the TD, you still have the Hawks backed up near the goal line and you bring the heat and force Hawks
to punt back and go for the block.



To me, that was a simple decision a great coach would go for. Instead, kicking a fg just to say
we put something on the board wasn't good enough. Not on the road, not in a hostile environment. A great coach pulls out all the stops, makes the big time calls to win a paramount game and
doesn't settle for the conservative chip shot FG to just "get on the board". The Hawks kept momentum with that fg.

He's a good coach but how do you get blistered back to back in Seattle?
Last year it was the long flight back from Boston. This time?

Harblow blew it and is likely now .

Your logic is flawed. If they come away with nothing then where is their mental state? They needed to get some points on the board, if for nothing else but a little confidence boost.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Although I am sick of the all the Niner talk on this board, I will chime in. Harbaugh is still a great coach. I can't stand him but one loss doesn't make him a bad coach all of a sudden. I think the answer is very obvious. Right now Seattle at home is the best team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what system you implement, who the coach is, whatever. A great team combined with the biggest home field advantage is too much to overcome.

Who said he was a bad coach all of a sudden?

I said he is a good coach but not great.

He's been good enough to take an inherited stacked team to the SB
but hasn't shown greatness in play calling or preparation when I've
seen him. My eyes see goodness, not greatness.

Nobody said he's a bad coach....

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Your logic is flawed. If they come away with nothing then where is their mental state? They needed to get some points on the board, if for nothing else but a little confidence boost.

That confidence boost and mental state did nothing with a FG. Ya'll needed the TD to make it a game

Hawks took the kickoff and shoved it down your throats for a TD = game, set and match.

In a hostile environment, you go for it and don't settle for chip shot fgs. Sorry....

 

[RoboticDreams]

That confidence boost and mental state did nothing with a FG. Ya'll needed the TD to make it a game

Hawks took the kickoff and shoved it down your throats for a TD = game, set and match.

In a hostile environment, you go for it and don't settle for chip shot fgs. Sorry....

I didn't say it worked and I would've liked to see him go for it but he's always done things like this. Think Alex Smith. He plays very conservative at times when the offense isn't clicking. I think it's like when a shooter can't make a shot in basketball. Sometimes a couple of layups helps him get his shot going.

 

[dude82]

Although I am sick of the all the Niner talk on this board, I will chime in. Harbaugh is still a great coach. I can't stand him but one loss doesn't make him a bad coach all of a sudden. I think the answer is very obvious. Right now Seattle at home is the best team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what system you implement, who the coach is, whatever. A great team combined with the biggest home field advantage is too much to overcome.

I, like you, am tired of the Niner talk now. I get that they're our main rivals and that some of their employees/fans are easy to hate/make fun of, but hopefully this will be the last of it for a while, because we don't play them again until December and after a while, it's gonna seem like we're obsessed with them if we're spending time during the week talking about them instead of the Seahawks or the team we're about to play or just played. I know that Jacksonville isn't really worth talking about too much more than we already have, but hopefully going into the Houston game and the Indy game, we'll be spending our time talking about those games than anything the 49ers are doing.

Just to address the topic at hand, though... I don't particularly care whether another coach decides on a field goal to avoid getting shutout. That's their prerogative, but coaches who do that are under the mistaken impression that getting your butt kicked ?-3 instead of ?-0 is somehow better when it comes to job evaluation time. A butt-kicking is a butt-kicking, so you might as well go for the TD to at least show that you have confidence in your offense, even if they ultimately don't score the TD.

Last thing... at least when this one was over, nobody could play the "no Justin Smith" or "vanilla play-calling" cards like some of the fans did after last year's shellacking.

 

[Podunkparte]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. The score was 12-0. We had yet to really put our foot to their throats and they were still confident in their defense. A TD and 2 FG gives them the lead. I take the FG there every time and put points on the board.

I was actually surprised we didn't go for 2 after our TD to try to make it 13-0 instead of 12. The difference between 11 and 12 is minor but the difference between 12 and 13 could have been huge.

 

[STBR 27]

I don't agree either, they had to get points in that situation, even if it was just a FG.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I think the 49rs taking points there was ok... The game wasn't out of hand at that point and they needed some momentum.... I think it was 12-0 at that point so I don't think it was and unreasonable call... I would a kicked the field goal as well, get on the board and try to get some momentum...

 

[Uhsplit]

Most agree that the FG makes the most sense in that situation. In DHS's defense, his team was barely able to get off a successful hike against our D in that game. So any points on the board would be highly valued.

I will add that Pete had his team ready and outcoached DHS. Now that both teams are built and competitive it is easy to see who is the better leader.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Ya'll are such conservative individuals.

You kick the field goal to get on the board in the 1st half but
not with 4 minutes left in the 3rd qtr in a hostile environment
when you haven't proven to get down there but twice all game.
Now you expect to do it twice more in the final 19 minutes and
keep the Hawks scoreless?

Maybe if you're at home but not on the road.

I was surprised PC went for it on 4th down in Atlanta though
the dive call sucked as it was the 1st half. PC was playing to
win the game and I like it.

Harblow basically told his squad that he didn't trust the O nor
the D. When you are supposed to have the best Oline in Football
and you're at the 3 yd line, you say o.k., we have 2 plays, go
kick some @$$. If not, the D should bail the 9ers out at the
goal line. Safety, turnovers = game changers. Punt and you
get the ball back no farther than mid-field.

If we're ever in that same/similar situation in a road game, I hope
PC doesn't follow ya'lls opinions.

You play the game to win. Not be conservative and kick fgs on the road = losers.

The Jacksonville game is a joke and nothing to talk about.

We won and that's all that matters.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

I didn't say it worked and I would've liked to see him go for it but he's always done things like this. Think Alex Smith. He plays very conservative at times when the offense isn't clicking. I think it's like when a shooter can't make a shot in basketball. Sometimes a couple of layups helps him get his shot going.

Wow, we agree. A fg with 4 minutes left in the 3rd and giving the Hawks the ball back showed
no faith in your O or D. It's mano y mano physical trench warfare. You are at a position to attack,
not in weakness to retreat.

Dec 8th will be burner.

 

[Screamin12th]

Niners who? 71-16... 0-2 with Kaep vs Wilson..... again Niners who? what rivalry ? Lets talk about the second best team in this division, the Rams. We all know Seattle is the best and the 49ers can't beat the Rams so that makes them #2.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Ya'll are such conservative individuals.

You kick the field goal to get on the board in the 1st half but
not with 4 minutes left in the 3rd qtr in a hostile environment
when you haven't proven to get down there but twice all game.
Now you expect to do it twice more in the final 19 minutes and
keep the Hawks scoreless?

Maybe if you're at home but not on the road.

I was surprised PC went for it on 4th down in Atlanta though
the dive call sucked as it was the 1st half. PC was playing to
win the game and I like it.

Harblow basically told his squad that he didn't trust the O nor
the D. When you are supposed to have the best Oline in Football
and you're at the 3 yd line, you say o.k., we have 2 plays, go
kick some @$$. If not, the D should bail the 9ers out at the
goal line. Safety, turnovers = game changers. Punt and you
get the ball back no farther than mid-field.

If we're ever in that same/similar situation in a road game, I hope
PC doesn't follow ya'lls opinions.

You play the game to win. Not be conservative and kick fgs on the road = losers.

The Jacksonville game is a joke and nothing to talk about.

We won and that's all that matters.

Yeah but a stop there would be devastating... Getting 3 points gave the Niners something other than a goose egg and a chance for momentum... 12-3 with a quarter and a half of football left... Niners get a stop and one more field goal and all of a sudden it's a 1 possession game... In the NFL when you pass on points it can come back to haunt you... cough cough first half of the Atlanta game when we DIDN'T kick the field goal... NFL you take points ... 4th quarter and time being a huge factor sure go for it...

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Yeah but a stop there would be devastating... Getting 3 points gave the Niners something other than a goose egg and a chance for momentum... 12-3 with a quarter and a half of football left... Niners get a stop and one more field goal and all of a sudden it's a 1 possession game... In the NFL when you pass on points it can come back to haunt you... cough cough first half of the Atlanta game when we DIDN'T kick the field goal... NFL you take points ... 4th quarter and time being a huge factor sure go for it...

Kicking the fg was devaststing and there was 4 minutes left in the 3rd qtr and we
get the ball. You assume they don't get a Td. Even if
they don't we're pinned on our goal line.

I was at a sportsbar and was chanting kick the fg.

I knew the game was over right then. Over.
They weren't going to get 2 more scores and
hold us to no further damage.

Why was I so relaxed? I knew that fg was inconsequential
to the final outcome.

Had the ball been at the 10, then maybe, but when
you're just inside the 4 yd line, you make it two down
territory.

I can respect your view and would agree if it was in the 1st half
or outside the 10 yd line, fine.

Inside the 4 yd line with 4 mins left in the
3rd is why we'll have to disagree and
just be happy we won!

GO HAWKS!

 

[RoboticDreams]

Niners who? 71-16... 0-2 with Kaep vs Wilson..... again Niners who? what rivalry ? Lets talk about the second best team in this division, the Rams. We all know Seattle is the best and the 49ers can't beat the Rams so that makes them #2.

I'm guessing this is you guys' village idiot?

 

[Suhsyourdaddy]

dude, not going to make any excuses at all as to why we lost, because you guys are obviously the team to beat this year, but it seemed like Kap was playing extremely timid. I think Harb's knew it wasn't going to be a game we needed to go "all in" for at this point in the season and perhaps was overprotective with his QB. The crappy thing is we got beat the fuck up more than we already were, and while nobody likes to see those types of injuries, that bodes well for you guys as the season rolls on. We are going to have to rely on a bunch of guys coming off PUP to step up and win games for us. These next 3 games are going to be crucial for the Niners. Even a 3-2 start could be about all she wrote.

 

[Podunkparte]

Still don't agree Osprey. In a wet environment against a running team, turnovers are not out of the question. Get 3 points. Let's say on the next possession your D strips a ball and you have good field position and can make it a 12-10 game.

Yeah, it didn't happen, but that's smart football, objectively. Turnovers happen all the time and like I said, SF is still confident in their defense. 0 points at that spot is just another hill to climb out of.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Hey parte, obviously this is a moot point and I'm not trying to .
However, I'm more interested in talking football strategy and x's & o's over Aldon's DUI,
Trent's trade to Indy and frankly, convo about the Jags. This is that opportunity and
neither will change each other's opinion and that's cool.

Still don't agree Osprey. In a wet environment against a running team, turnovers are not out of the question. Get 3 points. Let's say on the next possession your D strips a ball and you have good field position and can make it a 12-10 game.

Your assumptions have less odds than the 9ers taking the position that they're in 2 down territory with great field position. A Hawk fumble has less than a 2% odds and with a focus likely less than 1%.

Who says the 9ers don't score a TD, cut it to 5 and grab mojo momentum. That fg kept Seattle with mojo momentum and allowed Bevell to keep his whole playbook at his disposal with a 2 score lead.

If you talk about turnovers, why not have the same assumption that the Hawks fumble it right back at the 4 yd line (aldon off the edge vs McQ) and with great field position they then score and make it 12-7. You think 9ers get good field position and score. Less odds than having great field position.

OK, based on your assumption, it's now a 12-10 game. We're now deep in the 4th. You're now assuming that the Hawks don't score and you also assume that the 9ers get back into good field position and kick a fg. Way too many assumptions and the odds of all that happening are slim. When you start taking odds of the 2% initial fumble to a TD to a non-Hawk score the rest of the way and another 9er fg to win is small that late in the game.

Yeah, it didn't happen, but that's smart football, objectively. Turnovers happen all the time and like I said, SF is still confident in their defense. 0 points at that spot is just another hill to climb out of.

That is why I was ecstatic when they went for 3 and knew the game was done. The statistics of all of that happening were slim to none at all and why it didn't happen. Momentum is big in football and we kept it. Ever sensed momentum in your gut watching a game and it was like the other team had a difficult time handling it? Hawks vs Atlanta is an example. Another qtr and we smoke them. Were you a fan to see the Buffalo vs Houston playoff game when the Bills were led by Frank Reich and came back from a 35-3 deficit to win? An anomoly sure, but it's an example that you could relate to based on mojo momentum.

Kicking field goals at the 4 yd down by 12 late in the 3rd when you may only get back into field position one more time in the game is for "losers." The odds said so and the final result corroborated those odds.

I have a question for you, dude and uhsplit if you'd like to give what you'd do. There are no right answers here, only opinions. Some of it comes down to if you're a guy that takes chances with odds or plays everything by the conservative book.