Jack Article via ESPN

[wazzu31]

I didn't hate the trade but it didn't make sense then nor now. They need another catcher for Zunino, and a guy like Trumbo isn't what they need. They need guys who can get on base or play solid defense. Safeco Field is designed for a small ball team, they have the pitching but don't have the defense, speed or contact.

 

[NWinAZ]

I didn't hate the trade but it didn't make sense then nor now. They need another catcher for Zunino, and a guy like Trumbo isn't what they need. They need guys who can get on base or play solid defense. Safeco Field is designed for a small ball team, they have the pitching but don't have the defense, speed or contact.

1- Castillo didn't do jack for us so we can't compare what he does in AZ and say we miss that.
2- Trumbo is better than at least one starter (take your pick) so getting him was an improvement and worth the risk.
3- Agreed he wasn't the type of player we needed, but maybe he was what was available. The off season was the time for getting players we needed.
4- Small ball to a point with some punch in the middle is what is needed. And the 'small ball' players did need to be defensive with speed and with contact ability. Angels ball come to mind.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I had mixed feelings about the Trumbo trade. He was an improvement, but he wasn't what we needed. And now, the Mariner curse has struck him and he's hitting poorly.

 

[NWinAZ]

But you have to go for it at that price. He is under control next year and still has trade value if we decide to cut bait and run. He is the least of our problems in my book. He just joined the problem team.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But you have to go for it at that price. He is under control next year and still has trade value if we decide to cut bait and run. He is the least of our problems in my book. He just joined the problem team.

Agreed. I just hope he doesn't lose all of his value playing for us. Hitters like him tend to be streaky, but I still worry.

 

[NWinAZ]

Agreed. I just hope he doesn't lose all of his value playing for us. Hitters like him tend to be streaky, but I still worry.

I truly believe other GM's don't even consider anything negative towards a hitter who goes to Seattle. They just write it off as bad whatever.

 

[wazzu31]

1- Castillo didn't do jack for us so we can't compare what he does in AZ and say we miss that.
2- Trumbo is better than at least one starter (take your pick) so getting him was an improvement and worth the risk.
3- Agreed he wasn't the type of player we needed, but maybe he was what was available. The off season was the time for getting players we needed.
4- Small ball to a point with some punch in the middle is what is needed. And the 'small ball' players did need to be defensive with speed and with contact ability. Angels ball come to mind.

I disagree, his sample size was too small to say he did nothing for the M's and if we are going to use that small sample size we have to look at Zunino actually looked decent when he got time off after Castillo.

No question Trumbo is a better player than most of the guys they have, but a move for him needs to have complimentary move along with it. He is just a better version of what they have, and all or nothing at bat, a liability in the OF and as well making Cruz play more OF that he needs to. He is a DH at this point, it doesn't seem he, Lloyd or Jack have accepted that.

Most likely there aren't many guys who are available that have that wow type name but they don't need a wow type guy IMO. Having Trumbo would be great if they had a MLB caliber leadoff hitter, an average CF and a catcher who isn't an automatic out. I really don't think it is too much to ask as a fan to just have an average offense or even a below average offense. Not an offense that is an all or nothing.

 

[wazzu31]

I truly believe other GM's don't even consider anything negative towards a hitter who goes to Seattle. They just write it off as bad whatever.

Another thing I agree with, and it is the opposite for pitchers. I think Vargas is the only pitcher Jack has traded that has got anything back for (I guess Lee too though Smoak busted)

 

[NWinAZ]

I disagree, his sample size was too small to say he did nothing for the M's and if we are going to use that small sample size we have to look at Zunino actually looked decent when he got time off after Castillo.

No question Trumbo is a better player than most of the guys they have, but a move for him needs to have complimentary move along with it. He is just a better version of what they have, and all or nothing at bat, a liability in the OF and as well making Cruz play more OF that he needs to. He is a DH at this point, it doesn't seem he, Lloyd or Jack have accepted that.

Most likely there aren't many guys who are available that have that wow type name but they don't need a wow type guy IMO. Having Trumbo would be great if they had a MLB caliber leadoff hitter, an average CF and a catcher who isn't an automatic out. I really don't think it is too much to ask as a fan to just have an average offense or even a below average offense. Not an offense that is an all or nothing.

He also sucked for Cubs and with M's history of acquiring talent, none get better after they get here. No loss. Plus, if Zunino was better while he was here that had nothing to do with Castillo and more to do with Lloyd giving Z time off which he can still do with Sucre and lose nothing since both (all 3) can't/couldn't hit.

But the point of getting him and his value has nothing to do with complimentary moves. That is in regards to improving the whole team and not that bringing him over wasn't a good move. It was just a small step move vs several big step move of acquiring addition. Good pickup regardless.

Agree 100% with that. Just like we have needed a long term LF for decades. I don't know if I will ever see that in my lifetime and the sad part is that a cheap guy like Revere fills the LF and leadoff spots all in one inexpensive trade.

 

[wazzu31]

I guess we can just agree to disagree on Castillo as I think he is way more viable than Sucre, I hope that doesn't come off as I don't like the deal, because I do. The only way I will not like it is if Jack finally owns up to his words and does nothing else to make this team better. I don't think the team needs a splash just need to use the pieces that they have such as a ton of middle infielders and pitching to fill roles they need badly.

I truly don't know much about Revere but it can't hurt, just from the sounds of him he can only improve, can he play CF. I like Seth Smith out in LF and don't really like him just being a bench guy as he isn't very versatile.

But I do like the idea because it is pathetic that you have a guy like Morrison leading off, not that he has been bad or anything but the order needs to go Cano, Cruz, Seager, Trumbo then Morrison.

 

[NWinAZ]

Revere is actually a CF but with Jackson I would assume he would have to go to LF

 

[wazzu31]

F*ck Jackson, he isn't going to be a Mariner next year and the only part of his game that is worth a damn is defense and even then he is an above average CF. He has made a few good plays but there have been so many balls that a guy (with his reputation) should've gotten to.

I'd rather have Revere in CF, Smith in LF then package Jackson with a prospect for another starter or a SS. It'd be pathetic if Jack only dealt Jackson for a reliever or backup catcher.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don't think he deals him. I think he walks with nothing but a pick in return. The Jack way.

 

[SeattleCoug]

If this is Jacksons last year here they are screwed in center field. You need a decent center fielder at safeco and there is no one capable in the system. The free agent options aren't great either

 

[NWinAZ]

If this is Jacksons last year here they are screwed in center field. You need a decent center fielder at safeco and there is no one capable in the system. The free agent options aren't great either

What do you mean? If Jack is here he will sign Grady Sizemore for CF. He was good back in 2010 you know.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I truly believe other GM's don't even consider anything negative towards a hitter who goes to Seattle. They just write it off as bad whatever.

Still gives them leverage in trade negotiations though.

 

[seahawksfan234]

If this is Jacksons last year here they are screwed in center field. You need a decent center fielder at safeco and there is no one capable in the system. The free agent options aren't great either

Jackson is nothing great, he's solid, but not great. He rates #12 in dWAR according to fangraphs. Ranked #14 last year. #15 in 2013.

The fact that he plays alongside Cruz probably doesn't help. According to fangraphs, Cruz ranks #47 out of 48 players at RF who have played at least 100 innings.

Interestingly enough, Seth Smith is the highest rated player defensively at RF, despite only playing 154 innings there. Yet, he is ranked 30th in LF in 186 innings. Pretty strange.

 

[NWinAZ]

Still gives them leverage in trade negotiations though.

I see we having the leverage because we don't have to trade him. Keep him another year and when he walks we get a draft pick for him. That is how I would approach anyone thinking they have leverage.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Jackson is nothing great, he's solid, but not great. He rates #12 in dWAR according to fangraphs. Ranked #14 last year. #15 in 2013.
.

Agree that he is average at best. I still think you need at least an average guy in center playing half your games in Safeco. Especially if you continue to have DHs play in corner outfield spots. Luckily we should have a new GM next year who will hopefully value outfield defense in a big park a little more.

 

[cezero]

before the season began, the only thing we knew we got that was any improvement to this team at all was cruz.

smith has been a nice surprise, but nothing that really makes a difference for the team's massive deficiencies.

as we needed every other year for the past forever, we need a completely new outfield, and substantial upgrades nearly everywhere else.

the idea that the m's are just a few moves from being a contender is categorically absurd.