POLL Is Justin Verlander a Future Hall of Famer?

[jdwills126]

Yes.

If JV can't get in with the stats he has and will have then starters going forward will no longer be able to get in. In todays game where 6 strong innings is the norm, you will see fewer strikeouts, and less wins.

The measurable for starting pitchers is different than it used to be.

I look at Jack Morris one of the most dominant pitchers of his era and see the evolution of what starting pitchers have become and what the HoF voters remember. So it would be ashamed if you compare JV's numbers against guys like Blue, Perry, and Ryan. He comes up short, but I think it has more to do with the voters and the way the game is played today.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

That depends on his future in the franchise. So far he has improved his game and like I said a few days ago. I would gladly take Verlander over Darvish. I understand the money and at the time, it was unclear as to how good he could become though -but if he continues to play this good, then yes

 

[broncosmitty]

Two years ago I thought no.


Now I completely believe he will be. He really has impressed me since being injured.

 

[broncosmitty]

Close, but I think he needs a few more above average seasons or even two more seasons like 2016-2017 then he's probably a "lock". I'd probably put him in right now though, his postseason resume is strong.

So long as he's mostly healthy for awhile.


I'm anxious to see what he can do for a full season with a good team.

Jumping the gun, but I assume he's right there for the CYA again next year. 20 wins with the innings he will log seems easy.

 

[broncosmitty]

Nice move by Detroit

He spoke a lot about wanting to spend his entire career in Detroit. And he wasn't shy about his legacy being a reason for that.

I honestly think it was a tough choice for him to go chase the ring he just got. Harder than it should've been. And I appreciate that as a fan of baseball in general. But a lot more as a Tigers fan.

 

[broncosmitty]

Well I think much of that is because Ichiro's provided very little value the past 7 years (mediocre average and OBP with no power and declining defense/baserunning).

And Kinsler's been pretty underrated for much of his career - for his career he's been good offensively by 2B standards and has maybe had 6 or so gold gove quality seasons (although he's won just 1).

He doesn't get the credit for his career that he should.


Maybe that will change after he gets traded to a team with a chance at 70 wins?

 

[redseat]

I get it, she's a model dancing around almost naked. But damn she is a shitty dancer. Kinda ruins it for me.

Yeah she's not a great dancer but I aint looking at her dancing skills if you catch my drift

 

[Yo Tee]

Yeah... because he had about 3500 more PA. That's 5-6 seasons worth of plate appearances.

Damon: .284/.352/.433, 104 OPS+
Kinsler: .273/.342/.447, 109 OPS+

Did I mention one was a 2nd baseman?

Still don't think Kinsler should be in Hall of Fame talks or even close to it right now. Dude's got at least another 5-6 years left probably, barring any injuries. He didn't really have a very good year this year. He missed almost 50 games, but it was still a down year for him avg wise, obp wise and slg wise. He needs to have a couple more years of what he did in 2015 and 2016 in order to be part of the conversation in my opinion.

 

[Yo Tee]

By the time Kinsler is done he'll likely be ahead a fair amount of those guys in terms of career value (ie - Luis Gonzalez, Teixeira, Giambi). Remember, Kinsler's a 2B, where guys aren't hitting 400 career homers like at 1B or LF.

I don't see how him being a 2nd basemen matters. Altuve, Cano, Zobrist, Dozier and Murphy don't have an issue hitting the ball and they play the same position. Kinsler just isn't THAT good right now and that's not saying he's not gonna be a top 2nd basemen in the next 2-3 years. That's just saying that at this moment, I don't see how Kinsler can be anywhere near the Hall discussion.

 

[Yo Tee]

By the time Kinsler is done he'll likely be ahead a fair amount of those guys in terms of career value (ie - Luis Gonzalez, Teixeira, Giambi). Remember, Kinsler's a 2B, where guys aren't hitting 400 career homers like at 1B or LF.

I'm not judging him on homeruns. I'm judging him on that fact that he's just not that good overall.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I don't see how him being a 2nd basemen matters. Altuve, Cano, Zobrist, Dozier and Murphy don't have an issue hitting the ball and they play the same position. Kinsler just isn't THAT good right now and that's not saying he's not gonna be a top 2nd basemen in the next 2-3 years. That's just saying that at this moment, I don't see how Kinsler can be anywhere near the Hall discussion.

Why would you bring up guys like Zobrist and Dozier when Kinsler has been comparable offensively to them?


Career stat line:
Zobrist - .263/.355/.428
Dozier - .251/.327/.452
Kinsler - .273/.342/.447

So how can one objectively believe that Zobrist and Dozier don't have issues hitting the ball and Kinsler does given those numbers? Seems like you're underrating Kinsler, since he's got comparable numbers to those two (and that's before taking into account he's a much better fielder and baserunner).
.

 

[Ojb81]

YUP

i like how full her cups are

 

[Ojb81]

I get it, she's a model dancing around almost naked. But damn she is a shitty dancer. Kinda ruins it for me.

get out

 

[The Q]

I think he's a bit short based on previous HOF voting standards.

Actually winning a WS game would be a good start.

 

[Ojb81]

Retired guys: Fred McGriff, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Johnny Damon, Omar Visquel, Dwight Gooden, Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Mark Texieria, David Ortiz, Bernie Williams, Luis Gonzalez

Active guys: Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Buster Posey, Evan Longoria, David Wright

I got Kinsler as around #254.

As a kid, I remember dreading when Fred McGriff would come up to bat when the Reds would take their habitual asswhooping from Atlanta in the early 90's. Dude was a stud

 

[navamind]

I don't see how him being a 2nd basemen matters. Altuve, Cano, Zobrist, Dozier and Murphy don't have an issue hitting the ball and they play the same position. Kinsler just isn't THAT good right now and that's not saying he's not gonna be a top 2nd basemen in the next 2-3 years. That's just saying that at this moment, I don't see how Kinsler can be anywhere near the Hall discussion.

yes it does. 2B historically isn't a strong hitting position, 1B/LF/RF is. Just because there's a few strong hitting 2B right now doesn't change that. Also, I find it funny you're harping on Kinsler for having a subpar year when Zobrist was even worse in 2017 (.232/.318/.375, 79 OPS+).

I mean, take a look at the top hitters at every position.

Second Base JAWS Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com

First Base JAWS Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com

There's 343 players at 1B with an OPS+ of 100 or higher (this isn't accounting for playing time and some of those guys have more games at other positions). There's only 122 at 2B. Kinsler's 109 OPS+ would make him one of the better hitting 2nd basemen.

 

[jon2tanman]

Ichiro is below CC? Ichiro had one of the best arms in baseball and his hand eye coordination was one of the best ever. Regardless if people want to talk about his Japanese numbers, his first 10 years in the pros are amazing.

 

[dougplayer]

Of course he is HOG.
he has few good years left. Plus his work speak for him now.
He has a Heart rating of 9.96zx..on the zx scale.
He is clutch. Like on a getrag.gearbox.
Plus getting married to super hot girl.
And we don't have to listen to a fake Boston accent. HOF!!

 

[StanMarsh51]

yes it does. 2B historically isn't a strong hitting position, 1B/LF/RF is. Just because there's a few strong hitting 2B right now doesn't change that. Also, I find it funny you're harping on Kinsler for having a subpar year when Zobrist was even worse in 2017 (.232/.318/.375, 79 OPS+).

I mean, take a look at the top hitters at every position.

Second Base JAWS Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com

First Base JAWS Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com

There's 343 players at 1B with an OPS+ of 100 or higher (this isn't accounting for playing time and some of those guys have more games at other positions). There's only 122 at 2B. Kinsler's 109 OPS+ would make him one of the better hitting 2nd basemen.

Yea, Kinsler could very well end up with 300 HR, 1500 runs, 2500 hits, 250 steals, 400 doubles with a 60+ WAR. Wouldn't be a lock, but would be pretty borderline imo if he did ends up with that type of career.

 

[broncosmitty]

Ichiro is below CC? Ichiro had one of the best arms in baseball and his hand eye coordination was one of the best ever. Regardless if people want to talk about his Japanese numbers, his first 10 years in the pros are amazing.

That list is holding his shit seasons against him.

His ticket was punched a decade ago.

Not a chance he isn't first ballot.