POLL Is Justin Verlander a Future Hall of Famer?

[Yo Tee]

2011 AL MVP
2011 AL Cy Young
2006 AL Rookie of the Year
Triple Crown
6-time All Star
2 No-hitters
2017 ALCS MVP
2017 World Series Champion

Are these the stats of a future Hall of Famer?

 

[Howie115]

2011 AL MVP
2011 AL Cy Young
2006 AL Rookie of the Year
Triple Crown
6-time All Star
2 No-hitters
2017 ALCS MVP
2017 World Series Champion

Are these the stats of a future Hall of Famer?

He should be over 225 wins and over 3,000 strikeouts before he's done, so YES.

He also has two Cy Young runner-up finishes, and should have won last year were it not for two idiot voters in Tampa who left him off their ballots completely.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

YUP

 

[Yo Tee]

YUP

You're the real MVP.

 

[soxfan1468927]

HallofStats.com has an interesting methodology. Their formula creates a Hall Rating based on WAR and WAA from baseball reference. And they only put in as many players as the hall currently has. So 220 players in the HOF, 220 best players according to Hall Rating in the Hall of Stats. Over 100 means you get in. Verlander, Votto, and Pedroia all jumped over 100 this year. Pedroia was right on the cusp so his slight value this year put him just over the edge. Here's the list of active players over 100 after they just released their 2017 numbers.

Albert Pujols: 210
Adrian Beltre: 183
Chase Utley: 136
Carlos Beltran: 134
Miguel Cabrera: 133
Robinson Cano: 128
Clayton Kershaw: 127
Mike Trout: 122
Zack Greinke: 119
Joey Votto: 113
CC Sabathia: 113
Justin Verlander: 111
Ichiro Suzuki: 109
Cole Hamels: 107
Ian Kinsler: 103
Dustin Pedroia: 101

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think that methodology from hallofstats.com is flawed. Just using WAR and WAA by themselves doesn't work for me anyway but some of those guys have a long way to go and some don't belong period.

AS for JV, the more I think about it, the closer I am to thinking he will get in at some point. The 2011 season will be the thing that propels him and as was posted, if he goes over 3000 K's, and 225 wins, there probably won't be much doubt.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He'll be 35 on opening day and has 188 wins, ~2500 innings, ~2400 K's....at the minimum I'd think he needs 230 wins, 3200 innings, 3000 K's while maintaining his current rate stats.

 

[Yo Tee]

HallofStats.com has an interesting methodology. Their formula creates a Hall Rating based on WAR and WAA from baseball reference. And they only put in as many players as the hall currently has. So 220 players in the HOF, 220 best players according to Hall Rating in the Hall of Stats. Over 100 means you get in. Verlander, Votto, and Pedroia all jumped over 100 this year. Pedroia was right on the cusp so his slight value this year put him just over the edge. Here's the list of active players over 100 after they just released their 2017 numbers.

Albert Pujols: 210
Adrian Beltre: 183
Chase Utley: 136
Carlos Beltran: 134
Miguel Cabrera: 133
Robinson Cano: 128
Clayton Kershaw: 127
Mike Trout: 122
Zack Greinke: 119
Joey Votto: 113
CC Sabathia: 113
Justin Verlander: 111
Ichiro Suzuki: 109
Cole Hamels: 107
Ian Kinsler: 103
Dustin Pedroia: 101

I would like to think that the gap between Ian Kinsler and Ichiro is NOT that close. How does Ian Kinsler get in the hall of fame?

 

[StanMarsh51]

I think that methodology from hallofstats.com is flawed. Just using WAR and WAA by themselves doesn't work for me anyway but some of those guys have a long way to go and some don't belong period.

AS for JV, the more I think about it, the closer I am to thinking he will get in at some point. The 2011 season will be the thing that propels him and as was posted, if he goes over 3000 K's, and 225 wins, there probably won't be much doubt.

Well I think it matters how he gets to those milestones too - if he struggles his way to 225 wins/3000 K's and as a result his rate stats are hurt, I don't think it'll help his case greatly.

He'll be 35 on opening day but is coming off two great seasons, so it'll be interesting how he ages.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I would like to think that the gap between Ian Kinsler and Ichiro is NOT that close. How does Ian Kinsler get in the hall of fame?

Well I think much of that is because Ichiro's provided very little value the past 7 years (mediocre average and OBP with no power and declining defense/baserunning).

And Kinsler's been pretty underrated for much of his career - for his career he's been good offensively by 2B standards and has maybe had 6 or so gold gove quality seasons (although he's won just 1).

 

[Erie Warrior]

 

[packerzrule]

 

[soxfan1468927]

I think that methodology from hallofstats.com is flawed. Just using WAR and WAA by themselves doesn't work for me anyway but some of those guys have a long way to go and some don't belong period.

AS for JV, the more I think about it, the closer I am to thinking he will get in at some point. The 2011 season will be the thing that propels him and as was posted, if he goes over 3000 K's, and 225 wins, there probably won't be much doubt.

The only flaw in the methodology is whether or not you think 220 players should be in the HOF. Those guys I listed aren't actually in the Hall of Stats anyway, they are simply over the 100 Hall Rating number. The 220 players that are in are the ones who are over the 100 rating and eligible. Really, if you look at it as "the best 220 player should be in the HOF" once you get to the 220-250 range you are splitting hairs.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I would like to think that the gap between Ian Kinsler and Ichiro is NOT that close. How does Ian Kinsler get in the hall of fame?

I wouldn't have him in, but there are 220 players in the Hall of Stats, plus 15 more players who are retired and not yet eligible, plus 15 more who are active and have a higher Hall Rating than Kinsler. So, the question should be, would you consider Ian Kinsler to be the 251st best player in MLB history.

 

[Yo Tee]

Well I think much of that is because Ichiro's provided very little value the past 7 years (mediocre average and OBP with no power and declining defense/baserunning).

And Kinsler's been pretty underrated for much of his career - for his career he's been good offensively by 2B standards and has maybe had 6 or so gold gove quality seasons (although he's won just 1).

I honestly don't think there's much comparison between Ichiro's Hall of Fame status and Ian Kinsler's.

 

[Yo Tee]

I wouldn't have him in, but there are 220 players in the Hall of Stats, plus 15 more players who are retired and not yet eligible, plus 15 more who are active and have a higher Hall Rating than Kinsler. So, the question should be, would you consider Ian Kinsler to be the 251st best player in MLB history.

Probably not lol.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Probably not lol.

Okay, but you would agree that it wouldn't be completely crazy to say he is right?

 

[redseat]

YUP

Yeah I can watch this all day!

 

[moxie]

Nice move by Detroit

 

[navamind]

Close, but I think he needs a few more above average seasons or even two more seasons like 2016-2017 then he's probably a "lock". I'd probably put him in right now though, his postseason resume is strong.