I will Take the HEAT.

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Richardson was the secondary coach for the Seahawks for years, I don't think his schemes are any different then those before him, he will acquainted with what worked and what didn't. IMO the secondary just hasn't been the same since the NFC championship 2014 vs the Packers. The secondary got decimated with injuries, major injuries and I don't think the injured players have ever gotten back to what they were prior to the injuries. Thus you see soft zones, because we don't have the personal to go man to man anymore. Sherman can be beat and does get beat and the other side is in worse shape with CB play. IDK if I'm imaging things, but it just seems like our secondary can't keep up with top tier receivers any more.

Under Bradley was a bend don't break D, gave up yards and only fg's. Quinn's D was shut down lock down on your man and offenses struggled to move the ball. I really want to see KR reinstall Quinn's view with his added personality. Don't forget our secondary got torched cause opposing QB's have all day to sit in the pocket pick them apart.

 

[WizardHawk]

Richardson was the secondary coach for the Seahawks for years, I don't think his schemes are any different then those before him, he will acquainted with what worked and what didn't. IMO the secondary just hasn't been the same since the NFC championship 2014 vs the Packers. The secondary got decimated with injuries, major injuries and I don't think the injured players have ever gotten back to what they were prior to the injuries. Thus you see soft zones, because we don't have the personal to go man to man anymore. Sherman can be beat and does get beat and the other side is in worse shape with CB play. IDK if I'm imaging things, but it just seems like our secondary can't keep up with top tier receivers any more.

No, the defense is not the same under Kris Richard as it was under Quinn and Bradley. Richard does things quite differently. It was worse in his first year, but his style just hasn't been as solid as either of the ones before him. I mean he's not the worst in the league, but we had really solid ones before him and he's not up to their level. He's just not. For one thing, they don't adapt as quickly to what the other teams offense is doing. It takes them way too long anymore to adjust.

 

[blstoker]

The defense has been the strength of this team, and unless we want to completely abandon that principle, we're just gonna have to accept that the offense isn't gonna put up 30 a game. There are some real issues with the defense right now, too. Personally, I think that the pass rush has been bad, and getting consistently worse. The D hasn't gotten consistent pressure under Richard. In the past, they had much higher pressure numbers, forcing turnovers on the back end due to QBs making mistakes. Not happening any longer.

The line is getting older. Avril will be 31 to start next year, Bennett 32. Bennett's contract is essentially a 2 year with a 3rd option. He's not making $10 million at age 36, team will cut bait or re-structure (or Bennett retire). Our DL is already getting less pressure on the QB as it is over the last 2 years (less than 18.5% of drop backs result in a sack or hit on QB) while that number was over 21% the previous 2 years. This has required the D to blitz more, Bobby Wager had more sacks & hits on the QB than the entire LB corps (minus Irvin who also rushed hand on the ground) over the last 3 years combine. Not to mention that Wright also had high blitz numbers compared to years past.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The defense has been the strength of this team, and unless we want to completely abandon that principle, we're just gonna have to accept that the offense isn't gonna put up 30 a game. There are some real issues with the defense right now, too. Personally, I think that the pass rush has been bad, and getting consistently worse. The D hasn't gotten consistent pressure under Richard. In the past, they had much higher pressure numbers, forcing turnovers on the back end due to QBs making mistakes. Not happening any longer.

The line is getting older. Avril will be 31 to start next year, Bennett 32. Bennett's contract is essentially a 2 year with a 3rd option. He's not making $10 million at age 36, team will cut bait or re-structure (or Bennett retire). Our DL is already getting less pressure on the QB as it is over the last 2 years (less than 18.5% of drop backs result in a sack or hit on QB) while that number was over 21% the previous 2 years. This has required the D to blitz more, Bobby Wager had more sacks & hits on the QB than the entire LB corps (minus Irvin who also rushed hand on the ground) over the last 3 years combine. Not to mention that Wright also had high blitz numbers compared to years past.

Yes, the D hasn't been able to get the pressures as well as before, and your comment about Wagner blitz #s is interesting. I haven't found a source for # of blitzs, but I believe the Seahawks have done more this year then in the past. Something Bradley just didn't do.

Got a theory that offenses have been throwing the football quicker then in the past, especially those that throw a lot. Bennett answer when questioned about not getting to Ryan was in this vein.

 

[flyerhawk]

The Seahawks defense was on one of the greatest runs by a defense in NFL history. But it can't last forever.

The defense will be good again next year when Earl is back. But the offense needs to become more consistent. And that can't happen without the OL improving significantly.

 

[WizardHawk]

No one is against seeing the offense improve, particularly the offensive line. It is this notion they can carry 50% of the work load with 36% of the overall team salary cap that is ludicrous.

This team has been just terrible at drafting or finding free agents on the offensive line. Period. Yes, we have a couple of people that appear to be fine with the direction it is going and seem to be entirely ok with it taking years and years and years to put together just a middle of the road line, but almost everyone else is tired of it. Fix that line and that offense does more than enough to get you back to the SB. As long as they address the issues on the defense that is. They need a lot of help on that side of the ball and it starts with a better defensive play caller IMO.

I am not in favor of getting rid of any other coach outside of Richard and Maybe Cable. Those are your weak links, not Carroll or Bevell.

 

[blstoker]

Yes, the D hasn't been able to get the pressures as well as before, and your comment about Wagner blitz #s is interesting. I haven't found a source for # of blitzs, but I believe the Seahawks have done more this year then in the past. Something Bradley just didn't do.

Got a theory that offenses have been throwing the football quicker then in the past, especially those that throw a lot. Bennett answer when questioned about not getting to Ryan was in this vein.

I'm using overthecap.com's # for sacks and QB hits to come to the conclusion that Wagner is blitzing more. From 2013-2015 Wagner had 7.5 sacks and 16 QB hits. In 2016 he had 4.5 sacks and 18 QB hits. Just looking at the numbers, it looks like he's blitzed as much this year as he has the last 3 combined. So, it's looking at sample A and sample B and coming to conclusion Z.

 

[chf]

Neither operate in a vacuum. Grind out more drives, give your D more rest, D line rotation is fresher and more able to get to the QB without a lot of blitzing.

Turnovers have always impressed me as being somewhat... mercurial. Sometimes a D will play its ass off, and be in position to MAKE turnovers, but they just don't come. Other times, they come in bunches.

 

[flyerhawk]

No one is against seeing the offense improve, particularly the offensive line. It is this notion they can carry 50% of the work load with 36% of the overall team salary cap that is ludicrous.

This team has been just terrible at drafting or finding free agents on the offensive line. Period. Yes, we have a couple of people that appear to be fine with the direction it is going and seem to be entirely ok with it taking years and years and years to put together just a middle of the road line, but almost everyone else is tired of it. Fix that line and that offense does more than enough to get you back to the SB. As long as they address the issues on the defense that is. They need a lot of help on that side of the ball and it starts with a better defensive play caller IMO.

I am not in favor of getting rid of any other coach outside of Richard and Maybe Cable. Those are your weak links, not Carroll or Bevell.

FTR, I'm not really looking to bad mouth the current OL or the coaches or even the front office. I just want to see a clear path ahead.

From my perspective one of the biggest problems we have had is a complete lack of continuity. Not one player playing the same position from last year on the OL. Only 2 guys who got consistent playing time on the line last year. 2 rookies and a 2nd year man. That was simply asking too much and we paid for it.

I don't see why Richard has become the bad guy here. He didn't take Earl Thomas out. It's not his fault that we are thin at CB or that the pass rush was inconsistent. Before Thomas got hurt the defense was STILL in the hunt for lowest points allowed in the league.

For me, and I've been saying this the past 2 years, it's time for Pete to accept that the tight to the vest very conservative approach has to be loosened up. Our defense is still good but not overwhelmingly dominant.

 

[flyerhawk]

Neither operate in a vacuum. Grind out more drives, give your D more rest, D line rotation is fresher and more able to get to the QB without a lot of blitzing.

Turnovers have always impressed me as being somewhat... mercurial. Sometimes a D will play its ass off, and be in position to MAKE turnovers, but they just don't come. Other times, they come in bunches.

Very few teams can consistently get high turnover counts year over year.

 

[JMR]

FTR, I'm not really looking to bad mouth the current OL or the coaches or even the front office. I just want to see a clear path ahead.

From my perspective one of the biggest problems we have had is a complete lack of continuity. Not one player playing the same position from last year on the OL. Only 2 guys who got consistent playing time on the line last year. 2 rookies and a 2nd year man. That was simply asking too much and we paid for it.

I don't see why Richard has become the bad guy here. He didn't take Earl Thomas out. It's not his fault that we are thin at CB or that the pass rush was inconsistent. Before Thomas got hurt the defense was STILL in the hunt for lowest points allowed in the league.

For me, and I've been saying this the past 2 years, it's time for Pete to accept that the tight to the vest very conservative approach has to be loosened up. Our defense is still good but not overwhelmingly dominant.

Yeah, I don't see how Richard is suddenly not good enough either. Like you say, before the ET injury it was still in the hunt for #1 scoring defense. In the end, it gave up about a field goal per game more than we've seen the past few years. Now a field goal is certainly enough to beat you, but we aren't going to keep teams to 15 ppg year in and year out. Kam missed 4 games, same for Bennett (3 or 4 I think), ET pretty much half the season, and now we're finding out that Sherman had more or less the same knee injury that Russell had. I know every team has injuries, but those are some rough ones that absolutely affect how the team is going to perform.

 

[chf]

I believe you can file that under 'what the fuck have you done for me in the last couple of games?' file.

 

[Anointed One]

I know some of us put stock into the defense and how many points we've given up... I know it's a good measuring stick but to be honest, we did play the Rams 2x's and gave up a total of 6 points in those two games so that does skew the numbers a bit imo... Rams were dead last in the NFL in points scored at 224... The Browns were 31st in points scored at 264. +40 more points... Rams were dead last in offense... San Fran was 31st in offense... I just think those numbers are a bit skew'd this year... Our defense wasn't a top 2 or 3 defense in the NFL this year...

 

[JMR]

I know some of us put stock into the defense and how many points we've given up... I know it's a good measuring stick but to be honest, we did play the Rams 2x's and gave up a total of 6 points in those two games so that does skew the numbers a bit imo... Rams were dead last in the NFL in points scored at 224... The Browns were 31st in points scored at 264. +40 more points... Rams were dead last in offense... San Fran was 31st in offense... I just think those numbers are a bit skew'd this year... Our defense wasn't a top 2 or 3 defense in the NFL this year...

Hmmmm, well you can say the same things about quality of opponents for the Patriots as well, who ended up giving up the fewest points. They played the Rams, Browns, Jets x2, and I'll even add the Texans (who just dumped their OC) and Broncos as offenses that weren't very good. NE played half their games against teams that finished in the bottom 11 of the league in scoring.

 

[Anointed One]

Hmmmm, well you can say the same things about quality of opponents for the Patriots as well, who ended up giving up the fewest points. They played the Rams, Browns, Jets x2, and I'll even add the Texans (who just dumped their OC) and Broncos as offenses that weren't very good. NE played half their games against teams that finished in the bottom 11 of the league in scoring.

I agree.. That's my point...

 

[JMR]

I agree.. That's my point...

Ok, so the teams that finished #1 and #3 in points allowed were helped by the competition they played...and you don't think Seattle had a top 3 defense this year (and I guess not NE either?) so then who do you think were the top 3 defenses and where do you put Seattle?

 

[flyerhawk]

Ok, so the teams that finished #1 and #3 in points allowed were helped by the competition they played...and you don't think Seattle had a top 3 defense this year (and I guess not NE either?) so then who do you think were the top 3 defenses and where do you put Seattle?

I don't think the Earl-less, gimpy Sherman Seahawks defense was top 3. Top 10 certainly but in the back 5 for me. Our pass defense was far too dependent on the DL getting immediate pressure.

 

[JMR]

I don't think the Earl-less, gimpy Sherman Seahawks defense was top 3. Top 10 certainly but in the back 5 for me. Our pass defense was far too dependent on the DL getting immediate pressure.

Yeah, losing ET dropped it down for sure. Before that happened, it was about where the numbers say it was IMO.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, losing ET dropped it down for sure. Before that happened, it was about where the numbers say it was IMO.

Yeah before losing Earl the defense was certainly a top 5 defense. And honestly you could argue that any of the top 5 defenses were the best defense.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, I don't see how Richard is suddenly not good enough either. Like you say, before the ET injury it was still in the hunt for #1 scoring defense. In the end, it gave up about a field goal per game more than we've seen the past few years. Now a field goal is certainly enough to beat you, but we aren't going to keep teams to 15 ppg year in and year out. Kam missed 4 games, same for Bennett (3 or 4 I think), ET pretty much half the season, and now we're finding out that Sherman had more or less the same knee injury that Russell had. I know every team has injuries, but those are some rough ones that absolutely affect how the team is going to perform.

This isn't sudden at all. Many of us have not liked Richard from the get go. They have communications issues, really odd play calling, and very slow adaptability to what other teams are doing to them and had NONE of that under their prior two DC's.

Of course the injuries impacted the season. They do every year. They did the year they won the SB as well. Injuries aren't the exception, they are the rule and every team has to deal with it. Richard doesn't seem to adjust to those as well as others have.

You have a team with among the highest payroll for defense in the league with many of its top players. You're god damned right we have the ability to want more out of that unit no matter where they ranked in scoring defense. This team is built around that defense and hasn't been getting done at the same level we are accustomed to.

This team will not win another SB with Richard running that unit. No chance. Won't happen. They can still win with Cable, Bevell, and every other coach here if that defense plays up to the level we all know they can.