How to Fix Bengals and Browns

[CrashDavisSports]

Okay, this may be lengthy, but read it out before calling me a moron.

Browns are in so much need of everything, that one particular player will not help them. However, the right player, with a timely draft could. I truly believe the Bengals are not that far away from a 11-5 team again, as I think they were an 11-5 team this year but tough schedule, kicker issues, injuries all piled on to hold them down, and that happens sometimes.

Yes, I have said this before, but I think the trade of McCarron to the Browns will help them, but I was maybe a little too greedy before, but still want to be reasonable, especially if we are trading inside the division.

Browns trade their first 2nd round pick, and their first 4th round pick to the Bengals for McCarron.

As I am aware of the draft picks right now:

Browns:

• First round: (2) Own pick and the Eagles' pick.
• Second round: (2) Own pick and the Titans' pick.
• Third round: (1) Own pick.
• Fourth round: (3) Three *compensatory picks due to free agent losses in 2016.

Bengals:

• First round: (1) Own pick.
• Second round: (1) Own pick and the Browns' pick.
• Third round: (1) Own pick.
• Fourth round: (1) Own pick and the Browns' pick.
• *Potentially could wind up with 4 additional compensatory picks due to loss of free agents.

If the Bengals sign and trade McCarron to Cleveland for Cleveland's first 2nd round pick, plus their first 4th round pick.

Cleveland spends its draft picks on:
#1 Overall - DE, Myles Garrett, Texas A&M
#12 Overall - CB, Teez Tabor, Florida
2nd Round Pick - C, Ethan Pocic, LSU
3rd Round Pick - WR, Zay Jones, ECU
3rd Round Pick - DT, Montravius Adams, Auburn
4th Round Pick - OLB, Devonte Fields, Louisville - High Risk / High Reward (Project)

Cincinnati Spends its draft picks on:
#9 Overall - RB, Leonard Fournette, LSU
2nd Round Pick (33rd pick) - CB, Cordrea Tankersley, Clemson
2nd Round Pick - WR, Curtis Samuel, OSU
3rd Round Pick - C, Kyle Fuller, Baylor
4th Round Pick - RT, Erik Magnuson, Michigan
4th Round Pick - ILB, Conner Harris, Lindenwood
4th/5th Round Pick - QB, Chad Kelly, Ole Miss

You let the following players walk/cut because of cost, stupidity, or talent in the wings.

Kevin Zeitler (will cost 10+ million dollars on open market)
Dre Kirkpatrick (too much talent in the wings)
Adam Jones (idiot)
Domata Peko (time to go)
Carlos Dansby (time for youth)
Rex Burkhead (he needs to be a starter somewhere)

Resign the following players:

Brandon Lefell (1 year deal)
Cedric Peerman (1 year deal)
Andrew Whitworth (2 year deal)

Now, we have Gio coming off injury. Hill has not gotten back to his rookie season ability and has 1 year left on his contract. Burkhead will be gone. Peerman is best suited as a special teamer. Fournette is a special talent and a rare combination of power and speed. He could do for us what Elliot did for the Cowboys this year. Granted, we are going to need some help on that line, but that was planned into the draft with C and RT being taken. Fisher could possibly move to RG, plus we still have Westerman who could fill in there.

We also have CB Jackson coming back from injury, and DT Billings. Probably our two best draft picks last year, and that is even considering how well Boyd played for us this year.

We need to improve our running game with an every down type back with a little Gio here and there sprinkled in. Beef up the OL a little while saving some cap room on letting Zietler go. Plenty of depth in secondary with Shaw playing FS, another draft pick at CB, promoting Dennard and Jackson.

I think this trade both short term and long term help both the Bengals and Browns. Plus, I think it is too hard to pass up on talent like Fournette with the 9th overall pick, when one of our major weaknesses is the running attack. Defense got better down the stretch, young guys getting drafted, two of our best picks never even got to play last year in Jackson and Billings. I think defense could struggle a little bit at first, but with Burfict being healthy and back as the leader, I am not overly concerned about defense.

 

[Tubbs1518]

This is horrible. It doesn't fix either of our 2 top needs.

 

[Tubbs1518]

AND you took a CB in the 2nd round.........

 

[cincygrad]

Mike Brown wouldn't trade his used toenail clippings to Cleveland for their 2nd round draft pick. He hates that franchise with all of his heart and he always will.

Even if it weren't personal, teams rarely do deals within their own divisions. The Eagles/Redskins deal with McNabb was one of the rarest deals I've seen.

 

[Wamu]

The Browns will remain a joke as long as that jackass Jimmy Haslam's the owner.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I'm in no way bashing. I know it's the offseason and this post was to stir up discussion. But we might as well lay the AJ McCarron trade pipe dream to rest. As it is nothing but just that, a pipe dream.

There will be no trade. Not with the Browns. Not with anyone. This is the Bengals. Mike Brown didn't take a 1st rounder from the Redskins for Chad Johnson years ago. Supposedly they were offered a 2nd rounder before this season and balked.

I've said it before and will say it again, the time to trade McCarron was last offseason. His value was much higher.

 

[cincygrad]

I'm in no way bashing. I know it's the offseason and this post was to stir up discussion. But we might as well lay the AJ McCarron trade pipe dream to rest. As it is nothing but just that, a pipe dream.

There will be no trade. Not with the Browns. Not with anyone. This is the Bengals. Mike Brown didn't take a 1st rounder from the Redskins for Chad Johnson years ago. Supposedly they were offered a 2nd rounder before this season and balked.

I've said it before and will say it again, the time to trade McCarron was last offseason. His value was much higher.

It's all going to be worth it when we get a 4th round compensatory pick, 2 years later. Love them comp picks!

 

[futballiscool]

The Browns will remain a joke as long as that jackass Jimmy Haslam's the owner.

The Browns have $20 million more in 2017 capspace than any other team in the NFL. They're also going to run the draft with the trades they made last year. If their GM knows what he's doing and they can find a good QB they can do what the Raiders did the past 2 seasons.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

This is horrible. It doesn't fix either of our 2 top needs.

I disagree. Because when was the last time we took a draft pick in the first couple rounds really that was based off need and not value? I think I covered our areas of need pretty well. Running Attack, Offensive Line, Secondary after Jones gets cut and Kirkpatrick goes free agent. Our defensive line I anticipate getting better with Billings helping up the middle.

This is horrible. It doesn't fix either of our 2 top needs.

I disagree. Reason being, when was the last time Marvin drafted based off need and not value in the top 2 to 3 picks?

I covered our weak run attack, our offensive line weaknesses, I covered a secondary that I had Jones getting cut in and Kirkpatrick going free agency. I think our defensive line will be better with Billings, and giving Clarke more opportunities. Plus, still room for s FA signing or more draft pick chances. I even replaced McCarron with a quality project and left room at the back of the draft or free agency for a kicker.

Fournette is a rare speed/power combo at RB. He is a franchise RB. Get your franchise QB, RB, WR, TE...get quality line play and you have a very deadly offense.

Our defense only gave up 16 points per game in the last 6 to 8 games on average. We got better, and I believe we can afford to get rid of Jones and let Kirkpatrick walk. But we need more quality depth especially with teams having 3 to 4 deep quality WR's now with rules that favor offense.

I thought I read online where we lost/tied 5 games by a combined 16 points. How many kicks did Nugent miss in that period between FG's and extra points? We were basically a kicker away from making the playoffs this year even with the inconsistencies and injuries.

 

[alf8478]

OR

we can just re-sign Burkhead and Zeitler, and draft the best 2 front 7 people on the board at picks 9, and 33 (assuming this trade happened).

 

[cincygrad]

OR

we can just re-sign Burkhead and Zeitler, and draft the best 2 front 7 people on the board at picks 9, and 33 (assuming this trade happened).

The ballsy move would be to give Burkhead a big deal to stay here and put Hill's butt on the bench...... But I think we all know who will be the starter next year. Hill is now a Marvin guy - He won't be replaced until his contract is up.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I disagree. Because when was the last time we took a draft pick in the first couple rounds really that was based off need and not value? I think I covered our areas of need pretty well. Running Attack, Offensive Line, Secondary after Jones gets cut and Kirkpatrick goes free agent. Our defensive line I anticipate getting better with Billings helping up the middle.


I disagree. Reason being, when was the last time Marvin drafted based off need and not value in the top 2 to 3 picks?

I covered our weak run attack, our offensive line weaknesses, I covered a secondary that I had Jones getting cut in and Kirkpatrick going free agency. I think our defensive line will be better with Billings, and giving Clarke more opportunities. Plus, still room for s FA signing or more draft pick chances. I even replaced McCarron with a quality project and left room at the back of the draft or free agency for a kicker.

Fournette is a rare speed/power combo at RB. He is a franchise RB. Get your franchise QB, RB, WR, TE...get quality line play and you have a very deadly offense.

Our defense only gave up 16 points per game in the last 6 to 8 games on average. We got better, and I believe we can afford to get rid of Jones and let Kirkpatrick walk. But we need more quality depth especially with teams having 3 to 4 deep quality WR's now with rules that favor offense.

I thought I read online where we lost/tied 5 games by a combined 16 points. How many kicks did Nugent miss in that period between FG's and extra points? We were basically a kicker away from making the playoffs this year even with the inconsistencies and injuries.

We need a DE early. Have to. We have to get a better pass rush. taking a RB and a CB with our first 2 picks is just bad. Especially with how deep this draft is at both positions. Hill has another year on his deal and isn't going anywhere. I would even be ok with Fournette at 9 if and only if we took a passrusher at the top of the 2nd. I'm not taking a CB in the first 4 rounds at all. Also where does Samuel play here? I love him as a player but Boyd is the slot WR in Cincinnati and I don't see Samuel as an outside WR. He would be absolutely wasted here. That is also way to early for Kelly with all his issues on and off the field.

 

[cincygrad]

If you have Fournette graded as a rare talent (I hear he is, but I don't know about these things), I think he's worth it if he drops all the way to 9. Particularly given the promise of some of the young receivers this past year. You'd start the season with Fournette, Eifert, Green, and Boyd as major weapons for Dalton to work with. If healthy, the offense could easily get back to being a top 10 scoring unit.

I agree that we really need a pass rusher.... It would also help if we actually drafted a d-lineman that could make an impact. It feels like it's been a while since we've been successful with these picks. I keep hearing how good some of these guys will be (Hunt, Billings, Hardison, Clarke).... But I haven't seen it.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I'm gonna pretend to be a draft guru here. Feel free to call me a retard.

I like these four guys at #9:

Derek Barnett DE/Tennessee
Reuben Foster LB/Alabama
Solomon Thomas DE/Stanford
Jamal Adams S/LSU (won't be there)

I'd settle for:

Mike Williams WR/Clemson (likely will be gone)
Zach Cunningham LB/Vanderbilt
Malik Hooker S/Ohio State

Not sure what to make of the OL prospects. I do NOT want the Robinson guy from Alabama. He has bust written all over him. Already seeing reports of technique and work ethic issues. No thanks.

I'm all for a RB, but I'd pass on Fournette. He's already been banged up a bunch in college. He'll be good, but we have two many holes to take a RB in the top 10. Especially with our shitass line.

Also this is a DEEP draft at the RB position. I'd love D'onta Foreman, Alvin Kamara, or Samjae Perine in the 2nd-3rd.

 

[Tubbs1518]

All

I'm gonna pretend to be a draft guru here. Feel free to call me a retard.

I like these four guys at #9:

Derek Barnett DE/Tennessee
Reuben Foster LB/Alabama
Solomon Thomas DE/Stanford
Jamal Adams S/LSU (won't be there)

I'd settle for:

Mike Williams WR/Clemson (likely will be gone)
Zach Cunningham LB/Vanderbilt
Malik Hooker S/Ohio State

Not sure what to make of the OL prospects. I do NOT want the Robinson guy from Alabama. He has bust written all over him. Already seeing reports of technique and work ethic issues. No thanks.

I'm all for a RB, but I'd pass on Fournette. He's already been banged up a bunch in college. He'll be good, but we have two many holes to take a RB in the top 10. Especially with our shitass line.

Also this is a DEEP draft at the RB position. I'd love D'onta Foreman, Alvin Kamara, or Samjae Perine in the 2nd-3rd.

All four of those guys would be great picks at 9 and I'd be fine with any of them. I have Hooker > Adams personally, but they are both special. I'd be ok with Williams. He's my top WR, but I'd just prefer to wait at WR. I'm hearing some stuff that scouts aren't as high on Cunningham and that he may drop. I've also heard some "injury" rumors that may drop him some, but I like him a lot. Really good LB.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

We need a DE early. Have to. We have to get a better pass rush. taking a RB and a CB with our first 2 picks is just bad. Especially with how deep this draft is at both positions. Hill has another year on his deal and isn't going anywhere. I would even be ok with Fournette at 9 if and only if we took a passrusher at the top of the 2nd. I'm not taking a CB in the first 4 rounds at all. Also where does Samuel play here? I love him as a player but Boyd is the slot WR in Cincinnati and I don't see Samuel as an outside WR. He would be absolutely wasted here. That is also way to early for Kelly with all his issues on and off the field.

Samuel is such a gifted athlete with great hands, speed and vision, you find a way to play him. Just saying. Not the ideal size WR for the outside, but you can spread him around.

So if you do not believe in taking CB in top 4 rounds, then you obviously have us retaining one if not both Jones and Kirkpatrick. I was letting both go, so all that is left are Dennard and Jackson. I really wouldn't mind another quality young CB to be thrown into that mix as well at least for nickle situations. That secondary got real dang young quick, so I felt a 2nd round pick on a quality CB was worth it, especially with Pittsburgh having 4 deep quality WR's on the roster.

 

[Wamu]

The Browns have $20 million more in 2017 capspace than any other team in the NFL. They're also going to run the draft with the trades they made last year. If their GM knows what he's doing and they can find a good QB they can do what the Raiders did the past 2 seasons.

My worry is Cleveland's GM is as clueless as the owner. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If you have Fournette graded as a rare talent (I hear he is, but I don't know about these things), I think he's worth it if he drops all the way to 9. Particularly given the promise of some of the young receivers this past year. You'd start the season with Fournette, Eifert, Green, and Boyd as major weapons for Dalton to work with. If healthy, the offense could easily get back to being a top 10 scoring unit.

I agree that we really need a pass rusher.... It would also help if we actually drafted a d-lineman that could make an impact. It feels like it's been a while since we've been successful with these picks. I keep hearing how good some of these guys will be (Hunt, Billings, Hardison, Clarke).... But I haven't seen it.

His size and speed are rare, kinda in 6the mold that Peterson was in coming out of college. I am not saying he will be a Peterson, but he has the athletic tools, and he has show real talent in a tough conference loaded with defenses. He did have the injury last year, redeemed himself this year. I just look at what Elliott did for the Cowboys, how he took so much pressure off the young QB to succeed, that I think a back like Fournette can do the same thing for Dalton and this passing game.

I didn't ignore the offensive line. I was willing to let Zietler go because of cost, but drafted somewhat high a C and RT that I think can become quality players, while resigning Whitworth letting Obuehi backup, and moving Westerman or Fisher to RG.

Our RG got a little weaker, but I can't possibly see how our C and RT get worse by replacing with rookies. Plus, Hill is on the last year of his contract and seems nearly worthless outside the 10 yard line, Bernard can't run between tackles at all it seems, Rex is gone, and Peerman is a special teamer. There is no real reason not to take Fournette and all that talent if he is still even available at #9. I know we could use a DE opposite Dunlap, I am not denying that, but I really think Billings will help that line, and we can use a little money saved on Jones, Kirkpatrick, and Zietler to sign a slightly above average DE from FA. I know we will never go big, but above average is all we really need with Dunlap, Atkins, Billings. I truely believe that Billings will become our best draft pick from 2016, but he needs time to prove that. Guy is a freaking beast. We have big money invested in two starting safeties, so I doubt we go S with pick #9. There is no WR talented enough in my opinion to pass up Fournette at #9. We do not need DT. We will not reach and draft a OT at #9 after the two best come off the board, especially since we need them for RT and not LT. We will not draft a G or C that high. Only Teez is good enough to be taking a CB in the top 10, but once again, two 1st round picks for us at CB.

In my opinion, there is only one guy more talented than Fournette in the top 10, and that is DE Myles Garrett. There is no way he survives longer than 3rd pick. If you are not going to get your biggest need, then you go for a position that is breaking up, and has a rare talent on the board. I am not even sure Fournette would make it to #9, I am just saying that if he does, there is nothing left on the table better than him that you can't get nearly the same quality in rounds 2 through 3, and while it may be a deeper draft for RB, none of them rival Fournette, not even McCaffrey.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Samuel is such a gifted athlete with great hands, speed and vision, you find a way to play him. Just saying. Not the ideal size WR for the outside, but you can spread him around.

So if you do not believe in taking CB in top 4 rounds, then you obviously have us retaining one if not both Jones and Kirkpatrick. I was letting both go, so all that is left are Dennard and Jackson. I really wouldn't mind another quality young CB to be thrown into that mix as well at least for nickle situations. That secondary got real dang young quick, so I felt a 2nd round pick on a quality CB was worth it, especially with Pittsburgh having 4 deep quality WR's on the roster.

We just signed Jones, we aren't cutting him. Not happening. We would have Dennard, Jackson, Jones, Shaw. I'm fine with that. I'd also prefer they brought Dre back personally. That is much better than running Michael Johnson out there every down. Letting Zeitler go is also a terrible decision. Just horrible. We can't run the ball, let's make our OL much worse.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

We just signed Jones, we aren't cutting him. Not happening. We would have Dennard, Jackson, Jones, Shaw. I'm fine with that. I'd also prefer they brought Dre back personally. That is much better than running Michael Johnson out there every down. Letting Zeitler go is also a terrible decision. Just horrible. We can't run the ball, let's make our OL much worse.

Zietler is the top FA guard on the market, he is going to get 10+ million a year, and it is not worth spending that much on a guard. You can't keep everyone and draft 11 guys while signing a free agent or two. They only signed Jones to 3 years, he played one, his signing bonus was not huge. Kirkpatrick will get 6-8 million a year, and in my opinion he is not worth that.

We have to keep Whitworth. Resign Lefell for another year or two. Green, Lefell, Boyd, Samuel, Core, Erickson with Eifert, Kroft, Uzomah is just fine for our WR core.

I am sure you can find a second tier guard on the FA market to replace Zietler that is between 4 to 6 million if you have to. Next year, we are gonna have to spend mega bucks on Eifert, better save some contracts now in a few areas while we have the young talent.

Plus, they are trying to make Shaw a free safety, and transition him from corner. Our safety depth is really: Iloka, Williams, Shaw, Smith.