Hot take on LeBron James

[ericd7633]

...and when the majority of those points come when you're down 10 or so without any stops on defense, it's essentially garbage time.

I'm referencing game 7 last year. When Kyrie "bailed" out Lebron. Even though Lebron had double the 4th Qtr. points Kyrie had.

 

[Across The Field]

The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

https://www.google.com/amp/nesn.com...-out-lebron-james-and-the-stats-prove-it/amp/

I don't have time to pull up more, but Cleveland fans got to see Lebron getting swept in the finals and they got to watch him quit against the Boston Celtics.

Seriously?? Switch out MJ on that team when he was 22 and the Cavs probably don't make the playoffs. The fact that Lebron had the success he did on those early Cavs teams is an enormous testament to his greatness, considering the best teammates he had to play with were a mid-30s Antawn Jamison and the shell of Shaq.

Watch him quit vs. the Celtics? I'm assuming you didn't watch that game. EVERYONE on that team quit and basically said "Get us there, Lebron". He got completely worn down. The fact that people blame him for not carrying the entire team on his back, again, is a testament to his greatness. That team around him was total shit. No player in history would've won a title alone with that cast. Give me a break.

 

[ericd7633]

You can't complain about needing more help, then taking 30 shots. How can your teammates help shoulder the burden without opportunity?

His passive behavior is largely out of exhaustion (defensively late yesterday) and willingness to pass the ball in crunch time (not necessarily a bad thing, just not the extreme alpha of a Jordan).

Lebron can win, just not against these Warriors with Durant.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Lebron is in a lose/lose situation publicly. Has nothing to do with actual wins/losses. People bitch about him being to passive, and taking too many shots. lol.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So what? That doesn't change the fact the Lebron has faced significantly harder teams. The Spurs with Duncan and the other studs on that team would run circles around any team Jordan faced, and they're probably not as good as GS even.

MJ had Pippen (one of the best players of all-time, HOFer), Horace Grant (all-star PF, 4x all-defensive 2nd team), Steve Kerr (The career leader in 3-point shooting percentage), Dennis Rodman (Best rebounder in history based on rebound rate), and Toni Kukoc (one of the best 6th men of all-time). This was going against teams that had 1-2 studs and then a bunch of average- to below average role players. No shit he went unbeaten.

I will let you know how foolish your comment sounds. It'd be like me saying you have an all-star coming off the bench who is considered the greatest 3 point shooter in NBA history. His name Kyle Korver. You have not one, not two, but 3 players who have been named to multiple all-star games and all-NBA teams. You have three players who have won Olympic gold medals. You have a scoring champion, a guy who has won a rebounding title, 3 different guys who have won 3 point shooting championships.

You can dress it up however you'd like to make it sound more than it is.

 

[shopson67]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Lebron is in a lose/lose situation publicly. Has nothing to do with actual wins/losses. People bitch about him being to passive, and taking too many shots. lol.

That's what happens when people start claiming you're the GOAT but lose more than half of your finals appearances. Some claim he's the GOAT despite the losses, other will dissect his performances to explain why he's not.

 

[shopson67]

I'm referencing game 7 last year. When Kyrie "bailed" out Lebron. Even though Lebron had double the 4th Qtr. points Kyrie had.

True, but as usual it was not Lebron taking the deciding shot.

 

[Across The Field]

I will let you know how foolish your comment sounds. It'd be like me saying you have an all-star coming off the bench who is considered the greatest 3 point shooter in NBA history. His name Kyle Korver. You have not one, not two, but 3 players who have been named to multiple all-star games and all-NBA teams. You have three players who have won Olympic gold medals. You have a scoring champion, a guy who has won a rebounding title, 3 different guys who have won 3 point shooting championships.

You can dress it up however you'd like to make it sound more than it is.

LOL Korver is 36 years old you doofus. Kerr was in his mid- to late- 20s when he played with MJ. Do some research. If you're going to act like 36 year old Korver is the same as Korver in his 20s, it shows how much you know about basketball.

 

[ericd7633]

True, but as usual it was not Lebron taking the deciding shot.

Except for the fact Lebron took more shots down the stretch. Kyrie happened to make 1 of his 3 and Lebron didn't make any of them. But people want to conveniently ignore the fact that Lebron had 10 points in the 1st 7 minutes of that Qtr. Which is fucking stupid.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Not to point out the obvious, but that was the norm in the NBA back in the day. Two studs and role players everywhere else. It is the same Jordan/Pippen and everyone else. Some had better role players than others, but jumping from team to team and joining forces with other NBA stars wasn't the norm back then.

Lebron joined up with Wade and Bosh. Now he joined up with Kyrie and Love.

It'd be like Jordan joining forces with Bird and Magic. Or Isiah Thomas and Charles Barkley. Or Karl Malone and Dominique Wilkins. It never happened back then. Players would try late in their career when they were a shell of themselves, but you didn't see stars in their prime joining forces.

That is what the NBA is now. The Celtics did it thru trades. Lebron did it they FA, then FA again and a trade. Unfortunately for the NBA, GSW did it in the draft and still had room for a 4th stud. It is no different than what Boston, Miami and Cleveland (you can add the Clippers in, even though they have failed) -- GSW just did it bigger and better.

LeBron takes an awful lot of criticism for a guy who is not even arguably, he is a top 5 player all time.

In this era where teams give players nights off, LeBron rarely ever takes games off. He's played in 8 consecutive NBA finals...8! He's done it by using his FA rights to maneuver around and that irks some people. Those teams were not winning any titles before he got there, and they haven't won any since he left.

In THIS NBA finals...Golden State had a clear cut deeper and better team. I called it GS in 6 before the series started. If not for a very inspired effort from ALL of the Cavs in game 4, this would have been a sweep. I grossly underestimated just how deep the talent gap was from GS to CLE.

LeBron in general and Irving especially last night tailed off late in games in this series...just playing too many minutes imo, I'm not sure about the entire series, but the last 2 games LJ play 46 mins in each...GS was just too good and too deep.

 

[shopson67]

Except for the fact Lebron took more shots down the stretch. Kyrie happened to make 1 of his 3 and Lebron didn't make any of them. But people want to conveniently ignore the fact that Lebron had 10 points in the 1st 7 minutes of that Qtr. Which is fucking stupid.

You continue to argue a point that isn't being argued against really. The argument is about game deciding shots, those taken in the final possession of a game to ultimately decide the outcome.

 

[ericd7633]

You continue to argue a point that isn't being argued against really. The argument is about game deciding shots, those taken in the final possession of a game to ultimately decide the outcome.

With the game tied at 89 last year, Lebron took 4 shots Kyrie took 3.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

LeBron takes an awful lot of criticism for a guy who is not even arguably, he is a top 5 player all time.

In this era where teams give players nights off, LeBron rarely ever takes games off. He's played in 8 consecutive NBA finals...8! He's done it by using his FA rights to maneuver around and that irks some people. Those teams were not winning any titles before he got there, and they haven't won any since he left.

In THIS NBA finals...Golden State had a clear cut deeper and better team. I called it GS in 6 before the series started. If not for a very inspired effort from ALL of the Cavs in game 4, this would have been a sweep. I grossly underestimated just how deep the talent gap was from GS to CLE.

LeBron in general and Irving especially last night tailed off late in games in this series...just playing too many minutes imo, I'm not sure about the entire series, but the last 2 games LJ play 46 mins in each...GS was just too good and too deep.

Same can be said for any team who loses a max contract player. When teams are built around Max contract players and you take them away -- it is next to impossible to fill that spot with equal talent or anything remotely close.

It is what it is though. That is the NBA today we have.

 

[shopson67]

With the game tied at 89 last year, Lebron took 4 shots Kyrie took 3.

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?

 

[ericd7633]

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?

Welp, guess we're done here. Nothing like going to insults when you've been proven wrong.

 

[msgkings322]

@OregonDucks is beclowning himself admirably here

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Same can be said for any team who loses a max contract player. When teams are built around Max contract players and you take them away -- it is next to impossible to fill that spot with equal talent or anything remotely close.

It is what it is though. That is the NBA today we have.

The difference is titles go where this guy goes.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The difference is titles go where this guy goes.

I agree. He is one of, if not, the best player in the NBA. When you team him up with two other stars, winning a title is going to happen.

Selfishly, I hope Lebron goes to the Western conference. The playoffs in the West would be sick to watch. The East is trash right now. If the teams stay the same, even with Boston getting the #1 pick, you could skip the regular season and playoffs, and just let GSW and Cleveland play again.

 

[shopson67]

Welp, guess we're done here. Nothing like going to insults when you've been proven wrong.

You're still arguing points that aren't in question. Final deciding shot is what is being discussed; having the huevos to take that final shot, win or lose. Of course Lebron puts the team in position to win; it just tends to be his teammates that take the deciding shot.

 

[flyerhawk]

People that judge individual players in a vacuum clearly have an agenda to push.

The Warriors are arguably the greatest team in history. If not the greatest, they are one of a handful that could be considered that GOAT. They have the reigning last 3 MVPS on their squad. They have perennial all-stars in Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. They have excellent back ups in Iggy and Livingston. Pachulia sucks but he's just there to give fouls to people coming to the paint.

The Cavs are a GREAT team as well. They just aren't as great.

 

[shopson67]

I agree. He is one of, if not, the best player in the NBA. When you team him up with two other stars, winning a title is going to happen.

Selfishly, I hope Lebron goes to the Western conference. The playoffs in the West would be sick to watch. The East is trash right now. If the teams stay the same, even with Boston getting the #1 pick, you could skip the regular season and playoffs, and just let GSW and Cleveland play again.

Barring injury, it will be Warriors/Cavs for a few more years most likely. It will depend on whether the other teams can piece together a super team to compete.