Great Article on Marcus Smith...

[Iggloo]

Lane Johnson was a good pick. He may still play LT before he is through.

 

[eaglesnut]

Here's the top 10 of the 2013 draft class:

1. Eric Fisher
2. Luke Joeckel
3. Dion Jordan
4. Lane Johnson
5. Exekiel Ansah
6. Barkevious Mingo
7. Jonathan Cooper
8. Tavon Austin
9. Dee Milliner
10. Chance Warmack

Like I said, I'm fine with Lane Johnson lol. If Johnson takes that 3rd year leap like Fletcher Cox and Mychal Kendricks, we'll be sitting nice. Unless Lane Johnson starts developing horrible work ethic, he's just scratching the surface.

I wouldn't call it a bad pick either, but to be up that high and only get a RT out of it is a damn shame. We sucked in the wrong year. But ya can't really do anything about it. It's just some sorry ass shit that when we had 2 top 40 picks we got a RT and a TE when you can find both of those later.

 

[eaglesnut]

Lane Johnson was a good pick. He may still play LT before he is through.

He may. Peters is still a beast, how long until Lane is actually better? And there's no guarantee he can play on the left as well as he can on the right. But I do get it, at least we got a solid young lineman somewhere on the line.

 

[deerpathdave]

I wouldn't call it a bad pick either, but to be up that high and only get a RT out of it is a damn shame. We sucked in the wrong year. But ya can't really do anything about it. It's just some sorry ass shit that when we had 2 top 40 picks we got a RT and a TE when you can find both of those later.

Lol. So it it wasn't for the fact that the Eagles did a great job acquiring Jason Peters, and the guy has is holding up pretty well, Lane Johnson would be the Left Tackle.

With the luxury of playing him at RT, the Eagles have one of the best lines in the league.

By your logic, if the Eagles weren't as good a team, Lane would have been a better pick?

This is what good teams do. They stockpile good players. Its nice to know that if Peters gets hurt again, they are better equipped to handle it.

I also think the idea that LT is more important than right is a somewhat dated idea. Many teams are talented enough on the DL, that you need excellent players on both the left and the right to be successful.

 

[DaEagles]

Lol. So it it wasn't for the fact that the Eagles did a great job acquiring Jason Peters, and the guy has is holding up pretty well, Lane Johnson would be the Left Tackle.

With the luxury of playing him at RT, the Eagles have one of the best lines in the league.

By your logic, if the Eagles weren't as good a team, Lane would have been a better pick?

This is what good teams do. They stockpile good players. Its nice to know that if Peters gets hurt again, they are better equipped to handle it.

I also think the idea that LT is more important than right is a somewhat dated idea. Many teams are talented enough on the DL, that you need excellent players on both the left and the right to be successful.

Like we have been stockpiling secondary players? Or are we not a goo team yet?

Also, the LT has nothing to do with DLinemen, it has to do with the QB's blindside. MOST QB's are right handed so you need a top LT for the blind side, now if your QB is a southpaw then RT is more important for your team.

 

[Birds4life81]

I wouldn't call it a bad pick either, but to be up that high and only get a RT out of it is a damn shame. We sucked in the wrong year. But ya can't really do anything about it. It's just some sorry ass shit that when we had 2 top 40 picks we got a RT and a TE when you can find both of those later.

Couldn't agree with you more -- the top of that draft class was very weak and of course that's the one year we're picking top 5 lol. I'm still happy with Lane Johnson compared to who else was available though. I think his future is a damn good LT once Peters hangs it up. I also believe that in this new age football, the RT can no longer just be a mauling run blocker, they have to be able to hold up against pass rushers and still be able to take over in the run game. Bookends are an important piece to every offensive line.

I'm hoping for a Cox/Kendricks 3rd year type breakout season for Johnson. Dude is a freak athlete who has limited experience at OL since college and is only getting better. He's played real solid at times, but has struggled with consistency like most 2nd year players. Time for him to step up now.

 

[deerpathdave]

Like we have been stockpiling secondary players? Or are we not a goo team yet?

Also, the LT has nothing to do with DLinemen, it has to do with the QB's blindside. MOST QB's are right handed so you need a top LT for the blind side, now if your QB is a southpaw then RT is more important for your team.

Here is an interesting article on the LT/RT thing.....

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/29/examining-pressure-are-left-tackles-overvalued/

Once they go through all their analysis they conclude that their really isn't much of a thing as a blind side with the way NFL teams pass (guess what, when they pass left, they can see the rush from the left and when they pass right they can see the rush from the right), and you need to have two good tackles.

 

[eaglesnut]

Lol. So it it wasn't for the fact that the Eagles did a great job acquiring Jason Peters, and the guy has is holding up pretty well, Lane Johnson would be the Left Tackle.

With the luxury of playing him at RT, the Eagles have one of the best lines in the league.

Yes, a luxury. Now you are getting it.

Take a look at the RTs around the league. Probably only the Bengals have a top 10 guy that wasn't a failed LT elsewhere first. It's the opportunity cost that is significant here, we fixed the RT position with a top 5 pick when the rest of the league fixes their RT position with later round players. The Super Bowl Champions drafted theirs in the late second round, for one noteworthy example.

 

[deerpathdave]

Yes, a luxury. Now you are getting it.

Take a look at the RTs around the league. Probably only the Bengals have a top 10 guy that wasn't a failed LT elsewhere first. It's the opportunity cost that is significant here, we fixed the RT position with a top 5 pick when the rest of the league fixes their RT position with later round players. The Super Bowl Champions drafted theirs in the late second round, for one noteworthy example.

After reading the PFF article, I would consider having two great tackles more than a luxury. Its critical to a good offense to have two good tackles that can pass protect. Defenses now often put their best pass rusher against the Right Tackle as its the perceived weaker of the two tackles. If you can counter with a quality player like the Eagles do, you have the table set for the sort of offensive performance the Eagles have had over the last couple of years.

The Eagles have really struggled offensively when their line has struggled. when that group is healthy, I think you can start just about anyone at QB and RB and have success.

 

[eaglesnut]

After reading the PFF article, I would consider having two great tackles more than a luxury. Its critical to a good offense to have two good tackles that can pass protect. Defenses now often put their best pass rusher against the Right Tackle as its the perceived weaker of the two tackles. If you can counter with a quality player like the Eagles do, you have the table set for the sort of offensive performance the Eagles have had over the last couple of years.

The Eagles have really struggled offensively when their line has struggled. when that group is healthy, I think you can start just about anyone at QB and RB and have success.

We've had good bookends since Andy Reid added Jon Runyan. Yes, it's important. No, you do not have to spend a top 5 pick to obtain one. They are available for cheaper than that.

 

[deerpathdave]

We've had good bookends since Andy Reid added Jon Runyan. Yes, it's important. No, you do not have to spend a top 5 pick to obtain one. They are available for cheaper than that.

Not really. Either your spending a top pick, striking gold later, or spending big in FA. In the case of Runyan, they spent big in FA. I don't see why people just don't acknowledge that Lane was a good pick. They found a solid to great player (2nd best RT according to PFF http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/...ight_tackle_in_nfl_by_pro_football_focus.html) player at a premium position and most likely will have him for the next ten years at either left or right tackle. You can't really do much better than that.

 

[eaglesnut]

Not really. Either your spending a top pick, striking gold later, or spending big in FA. In the case of Runyan, they spent big in FA. I don't see why people just don't acknowledge that Lane was a good pick. They found a solid to great player (2nd best RT according to PFF http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/...ight_tackle_in_nfl_by_pro_football_focus.html) player at a premium position and most likely will have him for the next ten years at either left or right tackle. You can't really do much better than that.

Let me try to put it this way. Have you ever seen a RT get the franchise tag?

 

[deerpathdave]

Let me try to put it this way. Have you ever seen a RT get the franchise tag?

Nope. It has to do with the prevailing wisdom that Left Tackles are more important and the way the tag works. Because the franchise tag has one price for all OL, teams rarely use the tag on anyone but a Left Tackle as they are the ones that are overpaid.

Fact is that four teams chose to pay their RT $6.8M or more per year and all four of those teams made the playoffs. Those 4 teams (NE, PIT, IND, CIN) had a combined winning record of 43-19-1. Seems that investing in a good Right Tackle is both cost effective and wins games.

 

[deerpathdave]

BTW, 7 teams opted to pay their LT more than $10M per year, and overall these teams went 53-59.

 

[Birds4life81]

 

[eaglesnut]

BTW, 7 teams opted to pay their LT more than $10M per year, and overall these teams went 53-59.

Because they go in the top 5, to shitty teams, where expensive LTs are generated?

 

[Iggloo]

Our team was (and still is) desperately in need of adding younger players to the line, because Peters and Mathis and Herremans could break down at any moment. The Lane Johnson pick was solid from a need perspective, as well as a best player available perspective. We were lucky, in a sense, because Chip clearly wanted Dion Jordan.

 

[eaglesnut]

Nope. It has to do with the prevailing wisdom that Left Tackles are more important and the way the tag works. Because the franchise tag has one price for all OL, teams rarely use the tag on anyone but a Left Tackle as they are the ones that are overpaid.

Fact is that four teams chose to pay their RT $6.8M or more per year and all four of those teams made the playoffs. Those 4 teams (NE, PIT, IND, CIN) had a combined winning record of 43-19-1. Seems that investing in a good Right Tackle is both cost effective and wins games.

You need to dig a little deeper. You are factually wrong here.

Colts: Gosder Cherilus had a cap hit of 3.9m last year. He will make 6.9m in 2015. Also he was somebody else's failed LT, which I commented on previously.

Steelers: Marcus Gilbert had a cap hit of 2.4m last year. His contract jumped this year due to an extension and is higher in 2015 than it will be any other year. Also a late 2nd rounder, which I commented on previously.

Patriots: Sebastion Vollmer was paid 4 million last year. Also a late 2nd round pick. He also has a higher cap hit in 2015 than he does any other year.

Bengals: I mentioned Andre Smith previously. He was drafted 6th overall to be their RT. His cap hit was 5.2 million last year.

Here are the true top 5 paid RTs in 2014 by cap value:
49ers- Anthony Davis
Cowboys - Doug Free
Bucs - Anthony Collins
Viking - Phil Loadholt
Bengals - Andre Smith

The Patriots, Steelers, Colts and Bengals actually come in at 5th, 8th, 9th, and 20th. If you look at the list there isn't much if any correlation with winning. The top 17 teams include the 1st pick, 2nd pick, 4th pick, 5th pick, 6th pick, 8th pick, 11th pick.

 

[deerpathdave]

Here is the source I was using.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/tackle/

You are right that these things vary year by year. Here is another article on the subject...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/23/left-tackles-overvalued/3170721/

My general take on it is at the NFL level, its nearly as important to have a great RT as it is to have a good LT. And given that prevailing wisdom has teams paying about $3M more per year for the LT, its a relatively good investment to have a good RT.

 

[eaglesnut]

My general take on it is at the NFL level, its nearly as important to have a great RT as it is to have a good LT. And given that prevailing wisdom has teams paying about $3M more per year for the LT, its a relatively good investment to have a good RT.

And it doesn't require a top 5 pick to get one.