Great Article - Must Read

[MHSL82]

Brad Rock: Derek Fisher still getting what he wants | Deseret News

- In February 2013, the former Jazz guard signed as a free agent with Oklahoma City. He had asked Dallas to release him so he could rehab his knee closer to his family in Los Angeles. It wasn’t the most convenient thing, but the Mavericks complied. Sixty-five days later, he signed with the Thunder.

- Critics also believe Fisher used the system to further his career as a player association figure. He led the union during the 2011 lockout, but needed to sign with a team to keep his position. Joining the Mavericks took care of that.

Later, the union executive committee voted 8-0 to have Fisher step down as president, but he refused. Chris Paul was elected president in 2013.

Former union executive director Billy Hunter, who was ousted by Fisher, sued him for breach of contract and defamation, but the case was dismissed.

- This wouldn’t have been of local interest if not for Fisher’s history in Utah. He arrived in Salt Lake in 2006 after asking Golden State for a trade. After one season, he asked the Jazz to release him from his contract so he could seek the best medical treatments for his daughter, who had eye cancer.

Even though Salt Lake is home to one of the world’s best cancer facilities (Huntsman Cancer Institute), I believed his story. His daughter had been seeing specialists in New York, so I assumed Fisher would end up playing somewhere in the East.

Instead he signed with the Lakers.

I also bought his story because his departure cleared salary space for the Jazz, and the new deal paid Fisher less than he was making in Utah. Yet as time progressed, incidents kept occurring.

 

[MHSL82]

There's more, but those were key and this:

"All of this is mitigated by the Fisher persona: dignified, devoted, soft-spoken and introspective. When he was booed upon his return to Utah, he avoided criticizing fans.

I won’t say Fisher is a fake, a` la Lance Armstrong. As far as I know he hasn’t taken performance-enhancing drugs. But his moves have certainly enhanced his resume, at the expense of some teams. Now he stands to become a head coach, without a day of experience."

 

[MHSL82]

Didn't know this: he is also the only player on record to have played more than 30 minutes in a game without a rebound, point or assist.

 

[MHSL82]

Hate, hate, hate, I know - but Utah was wrongly accused of booing because we didn't like his "decision to move for his daughter." HE MOVED FARTHER AWAY FROM HIS DAUGHTER'S TREATMENT TO A CITY WITH A WORSE EYE CENTER!

BTW, I wouldn't have booed.

 

[nuraman00]

Did you consider the possibility that Miller/O'Connor offered to let him go on his own (not by Fisher's prompting)?

And they just made it seem like it was Fisher's idea, for P.R. sake?

Or that Fisher leaving was beneficial to the Jazz? He was a bad player (good in the 2007 playoffs but terrible in the regular season). It was best to get out of that longterm contract. Miller got to erase a mistake.

He was also blocking a better player, in Brewer. Sloan wasn't going to bench Fisher, so it was best to get Fisher out of there.

O'Connor could have gone up to Fisher, and asked him to waive his contract, but made it seem like it was Fisher's idea.

O'Connor should be praised for that move.

Fisher allowing himself to be waived was a great longterm move for the Jazz. Both because they stopped playing a bad player, and because they had better players in Miles and Brewer who were blocked.

It was a great move for the Utah Jazz.

Fisher's contract with the L.A. Lakers in 2007 was less than what the Jazz had been paying him. He had $20.4M remaining on his deal with the Jazz, while the Lakers deal after he was released from the Jazz was $14M over the same time period, 3 years.

So the Jazz get to correct a mistake, another team gets stuck with a bad player, yet there's still a focus on a negative aspect? And Fisher took less money, so it wasn't even a good financial move for him.

 

[nuraman00]

I also bought his story because his departure cleared salary space for the Jazz, and the new deal paid Fisher less than he was making in Utah.

EOM.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't care about what it did for the Jazz. Whether what they believed happened was true or not, the Jazz fans booed because he seemingly lied to get to a contender (more important to him than short term money perhaps?). Fisher got to keep chasing rings instead of being stuck here. Media portrayed us as being upset he made a family decision when his daughter had cancer. Those heartless Utahns! They may have saved money for her treatment (don't know why people save for celebrities), but they booed at a sports event? How dare they?!!! Heartless bastards!

Seriously speaking, Utah is known for being family oriented - so much so that it bores outsiders and pushes away free agents. WE hate family decisions? Second, a group of people did fundraise for his daughter AFTER the move.

I don't believe your above hypothetical because he did it again to get out of Dallas. Plus, teams let go of costly players whether or not they are bad. Don't see the reasoning for PR.

 

[MHSL82]

Still l, he's better than Mark Jackson. Not talking basketball.

 

[MHSL82]

Still l, he's better than Mark Jackson. Not talking basketball.

Read this:

Its funny where youtube will take you. I stumbled across the Jazzbasketball1 Channel (some great videos)
I scrolled through his blog and found a very interesting section about the Mark Jacksons tenure on the Jazz that I've never heard before.

Summary: He caused a locker room divide, saying the roster would be better if they ran more, and his style was better for that then John. He almost made Sloan retire halfway through the season, and as an announcer he has taken subtle cheap shots at Stockton, Malone and Sloan.

I followed the Jazz back then, and never heard of this story until today, I guess a lot of things come up after the fact?

Article:

Did backup Mark Jackson actually attempt to turn the 2002-03 Utah Jazz locker room against Jazz starting point guard and future Hall-of-Famer John Stockton?

Background
During the 2002 NBA Draft, the Knicks traded Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets. The 37-year old quickly let it be known he had no interest in playing on a rebuilding Denver team that would eventually go 17-65, and negotiated a buyout before the start of training camp.

Utah’s 2001-02 backup PG John Crotty had a surprisingly effective season for the Jazz but missed 41 games including the postseason due to knee issues. In the 2002 offseason the Jazz let Crotty walk while penciling in 2001 1st-round pick, talented Raul Lopez, in to assume the backup role behind the 40-year old Stockton. That plan fell apart when Lopez re-injured his ACL in August, sending the Jazz scrambling. They signed a relative unknown in Carlos Arroyo, and then appeared to catch a break when Jackson and the Nuggets agreed to part ways.

The Jazz signed Mark Jackson on October 2, 2002. On that day, Jackson commented “I’m real excited to play for this team because of the class they have and the two Hall of Famers they have.” Jazz VP of Basketball Operations Kevin O’Connor remarked, “I think he wanted to play with a team that had veterans. He’s a veteran who knows how to play the game.”

The 2002-03 Jazz season was a roller-coaster. Utah started the season with DeShawn Stevenson and Andrei Kirilenko in the starting lineup, but the starting unit (including Stockton, Karl Malone and Greg Ostertag) could never seem to mesh. Amidst a 3-7 start, Jerry Sloan replaced Stevenson/Kirilenko with Calbert Cheaney and Matt Harpring in the starting lineup – and the Jazz suddenly vaulted themselves back into the playoff picture, ripping off streaks of 8-1 and 13-3 to find themselves sitting at 25-15 midway through January. Shortly after, Jerry Sloan would be assessed a 7-game league suspension for shoving referee Courtney Kirkland and the Jazz would go 21-17 the rest of the way.

The Attempted Coup
In April, the first reports of friction in the Jazz locker room leaked out, with Sports Illustrated’s Ian Thomsen writing:

[Stockton] may be getting a push out the door by his new backup this season and the No. 2 man on the career assist list, 38-year-old Mark Jackson. Three members of the Jazz organization now understand why Jackson has been traded seven times in his 16-year career: They say that over a period of weeks, he succeeded in turning several teammates against Stockton by repeatedly remarking that those players would be better off if Jackson were the Jazz’s floor leader. Other players* rallied around Stockton, who, because of his quiet nature, was vulnerable to the locker room politicking. The rift on the Jazz was mended, though not before Stockton’s pride had been wounded. “There was no question it hurt John, because you could see him withdraw,” says a high-ranking team official. “But he’ll never talk about it, just as he won’t talk about injuries, because then he feels like he’s making excuses for himself.”

Sloan reached a breaking point in mid-January, when he lost his temper over the divisiveness on his team and stormed out of the gym during practice. He was threatening to retire then and there, only to be dissuaded at an emergency meeting called by team owner Larry Miller, president Dennis Haslam, general manager Kevin O’Connor and Sloan’s wife, Bobbye. “That had the real potential of Jerry saying, ‘To heck with it,’ and walking away,” says Miller, who believes that Sloan’s seven-game suspension for shoving referee Courtney Kirkland on Jan. 28 was the result of his built-up frustrations.”

In 2003 the rumors of the “divide” were that Jackson politicked with several Jazz bench-warmers that they deserved more minutes and that the team needed to run more (with Jackson claiming to be better suited to play that style than Stockton) while Malone, Ostertag, and Harpring backed Sloan (and Stock).

Thomsen’s reports and these whispers were corroborated by Salt Lake Tribune columnist Steve Luhm, who in 2007 wrote:

“During his second season, Amaechi became a member of rebellious clique that also included Mark Jackson and DeShawn Stevenson.* They all were unhappy with the roles, and their discontent fractured a locker room that John Stockton and Karl Malone had run relatively smoothly for 15 years. Although Stockton never said anything to me, others insist that the off-the-court turmoil contributed to his decision to retire after the Jazz were eliminated from the 2003 playoffs.”

*Note: At practice during the 2003 Playoffs, Stevenson screamed and swore at Sloan for not playing him more in Game 1. Stevenson was suspended and sent home prior to Game 2, but made appearances in the following (and final) three games of the series. Years later, Stevenson grew to appreciate his first NBA coach, saying in 2010: “Playing with Jerry Sloan – Jerry’s a strict coach and we had our ups and downs, but I think he made me stronger as a player. He was tough, but he made me who I am now. If I didn’t go through that kind of system and that caliber of coach, I wouldn’t be in the NBA right now.”

Mark Jackson’s Response (via Ian Thomsen):

Jackson says his actions were in no way aimed at Stockton. “I’m a born leader, and if people take that as manipulation, then maybe they haven’t been around leaders,” he says. “I make no apologies for embracing people and talking to people and making them feel like they’re important. Maybe in the past those stray dogs have been left on the side, but that’s not the way I treat people.”

In John Stockton’s recently released “Assisted: An Autobiography,” he makes no mention of Mark Jackson but does cite that in his final seasons:

“Some of the older veterans who hadn’t been around our squad” … “…seemed to take offense to any player’s connection with the ‘brass,’ regardless of their history.” … “The grumbling created an undercurrent I hadn’t experienced at any other time of my career.”

The Best Source
There can be no better source than someone who was actually inside the 2003 Jazz lockerroom, and that’s exactly where former Jazz center Greg Ostertag was. No player has had more “run-ins” with Jerry Sloan, although eventually they both grew to respect and care for the other. In 2008, Greg Ostertag called into a radio show and spoke with Jazz host David Locke, in which Ostertag said Mark Jackson would “stir the pot” and the ever-classy Locke referenced Jackson as a 4-letter unprintable word.

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Reading Between The Lines
In January 2003, Mark Jackson recorded the 10,000th assist of his career. He was asked by USA TODAY’s Greg Boeck “What does it mean to you to reach the 10,000-assist club with Johnson and Stockton?” In Jackson’s 79-word answer, he mentions “Magic” twice while never referring to Stockton by name, saying: “I’m a student of the game and I’m well aware of what those guys meant and mean to the game. To be a hundred or so assists away from Magic means more. If you would’ve told me when I was a kid in New York City, backing people down and trying to be Magic, I wouldn’t have believed it. This is a dream come true. I’m very blessed. I played with some great players (who) deserve a lot of credit.”

During Mark Jackson’s tenure as an ABC/ESPN analyst, he became the initial voice to champion the notion that Tim Duncan was the best power forward to ever play (misguided by the fact that Duncan is a center, Malone statistically was a better player, and that even today an overwhelming majority still hold Malone in higher regard). Additionally in a 2010 B.S. Report with Bill Simmons, while briefly analyzing the Utah Jazz Mark Jackson noted that Jerry Sloan’s distinguished record spoke for itself while slipping in a caveat that “I don’t agree” with Sloan’s coaching methods, before continuing on with his discussion.

Mark Jackson’s Credibility
Mark Jackson is a licensed minister who has been married to a gospel singer who is now his fellow pastor since 1990. In June of 2012, the then 47-year old Mark Jackson made headlines as victim of an extortion plot that revealed he had an extramarital affair with a 28-year old stripper in 2006. Jackson initially paid off the victim and her co-conpsiritor with $5,000 and Warriors tickets before eventually going to the FBI as the monetary demands continued.

Following the publicity, Mark Jackson issued this statement: “At that time in my life, I was not pastoring. Three years ago, my wife and I established a ministry. With deepest regret, I want to apologize to my church family. I was wrong. We must live holy.”

I’m not trying to judge another man’s faith, and for the sake of both Mark Jackson and his family I hope he has sincerely and truly turned the corner and put this mistake behind him. However, this incident’s lapse in judgment further exhibits a pattern of hypocrisy where Mark Jackson’s discreet actions belie his reverent words.

 

[MHSL82]

Continued:

Mark Jackson’s 2014 Comments
When asked earlier this week by David Aldridge about the Stockton/Hornacek backcourt (which here at Jazzbasketball has been touted on the sidebar as “The NBA’s Best Shooting Backcourt” for going on a year now), Mark Jackson once again downplayed Stockton’s ability saying:

“Hornacek — great shooter. John Stockton — good to very good shooter. Not a great shooter. Don’t get me wrong. He was an all-time great player. But John Stockton would not be considered a great shooter.”

John Stockton was a career 52% shooter and shot 50% or better in 12 of his 19 seasons. Due to his role and unselfish nature, he may not have been the “prolific shooter” Jeff Hornacek was, but it is absurd for anyone to go out of their way to say Stock wasn’t a “great shooter” when virtually every statistic says otherwise.

I think it’s evident from all the smoking guns that Mark Jackson clearly played antagonistic role in Stockton’s final season, resented Jerry Sloan and his coaching decisions – and judging by his recent comments still holds some sort of grudge against Stockton. As someone infamously likes to say, “hand down, man down” – and Mark Jackson continues to sink lower with his clear bias against John Stockton.

Myth: Confirmed.

 

[MHSL82]

Mark Jackson is my least favorite Jazz player of All-Time. I've taken most things in sports unpersonally, but that seeped through. I hate him, well, as far as hate can go for a basketball player. It's relative. I'd hate Hitler or actual criminals more, obviously. But basketball wise, he's the worst. He drove Stockton out, with Stockton gone, Malone left. Stupid Jackson.

I was f'ing happy when Golden State fired him after doing well. That meant it caught up to him. If he had been fired losing, then he'd just wait for somewhere else. But when a team can't stand a winning coach, something is up.

 

[nuraman00]

Read this:

Did Ian Thomsen write that entire article, from "Summary", until the end?

 

[MHSL82]

Did Ian Thomsen write that entire article, from "Summary", until the end?

I don't know. I just read it and shared it from another board.

 

[MHSL82]

Look at him, he's just so classy!!! He's bald and makes that serious face that just makes him look like he must be a great guy. He speaks real English and you don't see him flashing his money. Did I mention that he's just so classy?

Derek Fisher of New York Knicks files for divorce from wife of 10 years - ESPN New York

(For those who don't know where my post is coming from, it's from the random notion that he's classy without any reason for it. Because he speaks so well? His actions have been less than classy and he's been kicked out of NFLPA presidency. Oh, and have I mentioned that he moved farther away from his daughter's cancer treatment center to play for a contender and when we boo him for lying about retirement, we look like we're against family decisions? We're a family state. I'm not Mormon, but they are known as being big on family... and that's why we booed? Because he made a family decision... to move farther away to a city with a worse cancer center? And he's lied about retiring for his family twice, once here and Dallas. Now, he's divorcing that family.)

 

[MHSL82]

Least favorite NBA people:

1. Mark Jackson.
2. Derek Fisher (though it did help us financially for him to leave).
3. Derek Harper (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-02-22/sports/1998053153_1_seikaly-karl-malone-deal)
4. John Amaechi (not because he's gay, because he hates Utah and Sloan and just took a paycheck, his words - yes, I blame him, I'd take the paycheck and play hard.)
5. Byron Scott - Got into it with Malone, saying Karl had no heart and called him a coattail rider when he joined the Lakers (I didn't like he left us either). Had some moments with the Lakers, but we all know that he rode coattails, too. So, being a role player riding coattails supposed to give you rings and credit, but being a great player isn't if he won in 2004?
6. Ron Seikly (Reportedly refused to come from the dead Magic to the Finals bound Jazz because of us, but I put him at 5th and not higher on this list because it's not confirmed.)
???. Michael Jordan - Only because he came back, nothing personal. I'd like to have won a championship, even if it weren't against the best. I didn't assign a number here because he really didn't do anything offensive or personal, I just didn't like losing. It's not his fault refs didn't call his push-off, take away a three pointer when it didn't violate the shot clock, or count a jumper clearly after the 24 second shot clock expired.

 

[MHSL82]

Least favorite NBA people:

1. Mark Jackson.
2. Derek Fisher (though it did help us financially for him to leave).
3. Derek Harper (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-02-22/sports/1998053153_1_seikaly-karl-malone-deal)
4. John Amaechi (not because he's gay, because he hates Utah and Sloan and just took a paycheck, his words - yes, I blame him, I'd take the paycheck and play hard.)
5. Byron Scott - Got into it with Malone, saying Karl had no heart and called him a coattail rider when he joined the Lakers (I didn't like he left us either). Had some moments with the Lakers, but we all know that he rode coattails, too. So, being a role player riding coattails supposed to give you rings and credit, but being a great player isn't if he won in 2004?
6. Ron Seikly (Reportedly refused to come from the dead Magic to the Finals bound Jazz because of us, but I put him at 5th and not higher on this list because it's not confirmed.)
???. Michael Jordan - Only because he came back, nothing personal. I'd like to have won a championship, even if it weren't against the best. I didn't assign a number here because he really didn't do anything offensive or personal, I just didn't like losing. It's not his fault refs didn't call his push-off, take away a three pointer when it didn't violate the shot clock, or count a jumper clearly after the 24 second shot clock expired.

Add Kanter to the list somewhere - somewhere above Jordan and below Seikly.

 

[MHSL82]

I like Bogut's response: Stephen Curry of Golden State Warriors surprised former coach Mark Jackson doesn't back him for MVP

 

[MHSL82]

Yep. Byron Scott is on my list anyway, but I forgot to add him formally.

Byron Scott, Los Angeles Lakers coach, says he knows which players he doesn't want back

 

[nuraman00]

Yep. Byron Scott is on my list anyway, but I forgot to add him formally.

Byron Scott, Los Angeles Lakers coach, says he knows which players he doesn't want back

What did he criticize Lin about?

What is your formal process? Do you make a laminated sign?

 

[MHSL82]

What did he criticize Lin about?

What is your formal process? Do you make a laminated sign?

Lamination just smears the blood I write their names with, at least if you do it too soon and/or with too much blood.

Formally just meant I didn't have him in the list I made above of least favorite NBA people. He's there now, rightfully.