GOAT vs. perspective

[Stymietee]

While out and about one day last week, I stopped in a local sporting goods store and while there took note of a young man wearing a Labron James cap. I asked him which player he thought was the best player in the game today Durant or James. He responded that he thought that just by a little James would be his choice, then added that James was the GOAT. When I asked about players of another era, he simply stated that, he had not seen them so they were discounted to that degree. I began to wonder if current evaluations might also be (in part) the reasoning behind the argument over GOAT. Russell, West, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Erving, the big "O" and company may have all been deemed the best at some point, but my question is.....does time/distance away from the game factor into this sort of evaluation?

 

[BOTSLAYER]

From my experience, A LOT!!!! None more so than with MJ.

 

[gordontrue]

I find that it goes both ways.

There are fans that don't know NBA history and discount anyone outside of the past decade, which is silly.

There are fans that have so much nostalgia about the good old days that they give too much weight to former players, refusing to believe that anyone could ever measure up to their beloved *insert player here*

And there are a few fans that have a healthy balance of knowing NBA history and still keeping an open mind for current players.

 

[shitsho]

Time has a way of dimming that which you do not want to remember and bathing in a golden light that which you want to remember. I thought no one would ever get close to MJ's level. Lebron is changing my mind.

 

[RobToxin]

I like the title of GOAT vs perspective.

I will not include any active players in any GOAT conversation. But not because of nostalgia. I have a different perspective.

LeBron is still playing. His legacy is still being formed. His book has not completely been written. How can we say his story is the greatest of all time while it is barely halfway finished?

GOATs and legacies and Mount Rushmores are for memories. LeBron is not a memory. LeBron is what is happening now. I'll enjoy the here and now and reminisce about the old days.

To do otherwise is to not only discredit the past but also the present.

And the future.

 

[Jims_Doors]

While out and about one day last week, I stopped in a local sporting goods store and while there took note of a young man wearing a Labron James cap. I asked him which player he thought was the best player in the game today Durant or James. He responded that he thought that just by a little James would be his choice, then added that James was the GOAT. When I asked about players of another era, he simply stated that, he had not seen them so they were discounted to that degree. I began to wonder if current evaluations might also be (in part) the reasoning behind the argument over GOAT. Russell, West, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Erving, the big "O" and company may have all been deemed the best at some point, but my question is.....does time/distance away from the game factor into this sort of evaluation?

This.....

That's why I don't like to offer a top 10 list because most lists have at least 2-3 players that I didn't see play live or on a somewhat consistent basis. It's non-sense to say _____ should be ahead of _____ when you've never seen that player play live.

 

[Stymietee]

This.....

That's why I don't like to offer a top 10 list because most lists have at least 2-3 players that I didn't see play live or on a somewhat consistent basis. It's non-sense to say _____ should be ahead of _____ when you've never seen that player play live.

I often wonder why there is so much heat generated when this subject comes up. Former GT HC John Thompson has forever insisted that Bill Russell is GOAT, while many others will debate (insert name here) as the same. Maybe it is a generational thing, or possibly a clever way to entice the masses into joining in order to enhance rating. The young man with whom I'd had that conversation with also had this nugget to share........... although he purchased the cap (L. James) he also owns one of the local hero (Durant).......When asked why he did that, he simply stated, "I'm not really sure, but they have my money now!" Maybe that explains the origins of debate topics that have no correct answer and no end.

 

[Stymietee]

From my experience, A LOT!!!! None more so than with MJ.

I have a question for you...........which led to MJ being seen as the GOAT by so many? 1. was it his play?...........Or............. 2.his ability to expand merchandising sales for the league and businesses? I'm sure that you'll choose to combine the two, but if you could ONLY pick one, which would it be?

 

[Stymietee]

I like the title of GOAT vs perspective.

I will not include any active players in any GOAT conversation. But not because of nostalgia. I have a different perspective.

LeBron is still playing. His legacy is still being formed. His book has not completely been written. How can we say his story is the greatest of all time while it is barely halfway finished?

GOATs and legacies and Mount Rushmores are for memories. LeBron is not a memory. LeBron is what is happening now. I'll enjoy the here and now and reminisce about the old days.

To do otherwise is to not only discredit the past but also the present.

And the future.

Very very good points you've made......is it your contention that the current trend towards James is directly related to both ticket and merchandising sales?

 

[Stymietee]

I find that it goes both ways.

There are fans that don't know NBA history and discount anyone outside of the past decade, which is silly.

There are fans that have so much nostalgia about the good old days that they give too much weight to former players, refusing to believe that anyone could ever measure up to their beloved *insert player here*

And there are a few fans that have a healthy balance of knowing NBA history and still keeping an open mind for current players.

Isn't it also true that rule changes have created a exception option for the purists to argue against seeing the more modern player as better than those who preceded them?

 

[Stymietee]

Time has a way of dimming that which you do not want to remember and bathing in a golden light that which you want to remember. I thought no one would ever get close to MJ's level. Lebron is changing my mind.

Very interesting......but I have to ask, are you now changing your mind because of time? I'm not trying to argue one vs. the other, but just testing your premise. Thanks!!

 

[Flauge]

to answer your original question.. i think yes. every major team sport with the exception of baseball.. greatest player played in at least the 90s or today.

Manning/Brady greatest QBs
Jordan GOAT
Gretzky GOAT...

No one will ever touch Babe Ruth in baseball just on the fact we know he didnt roid.. and the guy won 20 games as a pitcher 5 times.

I cant comment on players before the 80s.. I never saw them play really. Dr. J retired when I was 9.. never saw the big 0 play or wilt. I didnt really follow a ton of basketball outside of the playoffs when I was young because the NBA wasnt on TV like today and south florida had no team. I did watch alot of Lakers/Celtics finals with my dad.

To me the greatest basketball player was Mike. But I say that like the kid you met. He says Lebron. Never saw Jordan. I say Jordan, never saw Wilt, the Big 0, or Jerry West. My opinion is pretty limited too.

google the list of greatest LBs, WRs, QBs, Pitchers, PGs, PFs.... top 10 list I bet 7-8 played in last 20 years.. on all lists. That just has to be bullshit.

 

[Flauge]

the reason i say Jordan is the GOAT is simple. Reggie Miller, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley.... there is a whole generation of hall of famers.. 1st ballot. No rings. Why? Mike.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

I have a question for you...........which led to MJ being seen as the GOAT by so many? 1. was it his play?...........Or............. 2.his ability to expand merchandising sales for the league and businesses? I'm sure that you'll choose to combine the two, but if you could ONLY pick one, which would it be?

IMO Exclusively 2 even though Bird and Magic deserve as much if not more of that credit, but MJ was a decade of basketball. I can go back and forth between Kareem or Russell but MJ is forever cemented at #3 or worse. Every argument for MJ is stats, winning (despite Russell and Kareem both surpassing him at both the college and pro level), accolades (which both Kareem and Russell surpass him) and their favorite argument is intangibles but he retired in his prime and then prematurely again and was involved in so many off court grey areas that he might not be in the NBA with today's media scrutiny exposing those things so tightly kept under wraps, like a Pacman Jones situation.

Isn't it also true that rule changes have created a exception option for the purists to argue against seeing the more modern player as better than those who preceded them?

This is another knock against MJ as rules were created to benefit him where other players were limited by rules.

Maybe it is a generational thing, or possibly a clever way to entice the masses into joining in order to enhance rating.

THIS. Stern and MJ were in the right place at the right time and Stern does what he can to create superstars because that is what people want to see. Every body wants to be the one who has seen the GOAT play.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

the reason i say Jordan is the GOAT is simple. Reggie Miller, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley.... there is a whole generation of hall of famers.. 1st ballot. No rings. Why? Mike.

There were 4 other starters on every championship team he was ever apart of and if you want to talk about a monopoly on talent they never once went to game 7...something MJ fans regularly cite as a credential to his greatness which is really a testament to how much better his teams were.