Giants sign Daniel Jones...

[fastforward]

sam bradford wasnt even the highest paid player on his team in 2011, much less 41% of the cap. Im confused.. im admittedly a bit high so forgive me.

I was quoting the total value of the rookie contract as a percentage of the NFL's salary cap.

 

[SteelersPride]

He improved a lot this past year under Daboll. People have to quit looking at what the agents post about these deals anyway. The agents inflate the value by merely giving the total amount to make it look like a $40 mil AAV deal when it really isn't. This thing is set up so they can let Daboll do his job while improving the team around Jones and get out of it when the time comes if they need to. Let's see what happens when they get him a legit #1 WR and some weapons besides Barkley and shore up the Oline. Really, all 3 of these early signings are structured in the team's favor. I'm not expecting Jones to be Josh Allen here. I think his ceiling is limited but he can be a solid starter given the right environment and I think he can continue to improve. Tougher division, for sure but the conference is pretty weak and you never know when a guy can catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[PhilSimms11]

I understand everyone is entitled to their money. If you can get paid get paid. Word is Barkley and the Giants are 2 million apart. $2,000,000 is a lot of money to most people, myself included...however, in their business it seems a bit miniscule.

Daniel Jones signed a huge contract. He's not obligated to do this, but could he walk in to the Giants' front office and renegotiate for a little less to get Barkley signed?

They cannot afford to lose Barkley over a "measly" $2,000,000. It's making me nervous.

 

[Dude]

The NFL didn't generate anywhere near the level of income in the 80s and 90s. Players were paid in comparison to what the NFL earned.

Like many fans you aren't looking at the cause and effect nature of the situation. The salary cap is set by league income. Historically NFL income is increasing by 8% per year. Rookie salaries for top prospects coming out of college is artificially low. Players are on fixed contracts for their 1st 3, 4 or 5 seasons. Rookie contracts are going up incrementally but it only equates to about 3% per year. The value of bottom end free agents is set by the equivalent players on rookie contracts - so bottom end FA pay is only going up by 3% per year. Teams are required to spend the salary cap money and teams can't pay those at the bottom. The most sensible thing for teams to do is pay superstars rather than mid tier FAs.

Increasing high Draft pick rookie contracts, increasing the average annual increase in rookie pay, paying proven-performance, rookie salary players more in years 3 & 4, increasing RFA tag values, and increasing practice squad sizes are all partial solutions to combating high percentage annual increases in superstar pay.

How many teams have reached or won SB with those recent and enormous QB contracts? I understand what you are saying, but some teams sign huge QB contracts, ignore other team needs and get nowhere.

If it’s all about watching a super QB choke on an average team, a team that has ignored other key positions, hey knock yourself out.

As some have said, it’s all about the guaranteed money more than the headline grabbing contract.

 

[Gman]

I understand everyone is entitled to their money. If you can get paid get paid. Word is Barkley and the Giants are 2 million apart. $2,000,000 is a lot of money to most people, myself included...however, in their business it seems a bit miniscule.

Daniel Jones signed a huge contract. He's not obligated to do this, but could he walk in to the Giants' front office and renegotiate for a little less to get Barkley signed?

They cannot afford to lose Barkley over a "measly" $2,000,000. It's making me nervous.

I love Barkley as a player.

But... he's a running back. You're comparing him to a QB. There's no comparison.

Beyond that, Barkley is great at his best... but he has been at his best less than half the time during his pro career (mostly due to injuries).

That's unfortunate... but it's a fact.

I think the Giants FO is doing the responsible thing here... and I support them.

Finally, the Giants are being run right. Seems like it has been a long time.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

gonna be a long year for ny if barkley sits out.

 

[Gman]

gonna be a long year for ny if barkley sits out.

Barkley either being out or being less than 100% is hardly novel territory for the Gmen.

The difference this year is... the Giants actually have some talent and continuity on offense apart from Saquon.

 

[wilwhite]

I love Barkley as a player.

But... he's a running back. You're comparing him to a QB. There's no comparison.

Beyond that, Barkley is great at his best... but he has been at his best less than half the time during his pro career (mostly due to injuries).

That's unfortunate... but it's a fact.

I think the Giants FO is doing the responsible thing here... and I support them.

Finally, the Giants are being run right. Seems like it has been a long time.

I don’t really understand this kind of calculation. It doesn’t matter what position he plays, what matters is his value to the organization over the the next guy, taking the salary cap into consideration.

I think Barkley himself might mean a couple more wins as a player over what they would have without him. That’s not true of most RBs. He should get the other $2 million.

 

[Gman]

I don’t really understand this kind of calculation. It doesn’t matter what position he plays, what matters is his value to the organization over the the next guy, taking the salary cap into consideration.

I think Barkley himself might mean a couple more wins as a player over what they would have without him. That’s not true of most RBs. He should get the other $2 million.

I think the Giants are (finally) taking the salary cap into consideration.

Saquon should have taken the pretty generous extension offer from the Giants last season.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I love Barkley as a player.

But... he's a running back. You're comparing him to a QB. There's no comparison.

Beyond that, Barkley is great at his best... but he has been at his best less than half the time during his pro career (mostly due to injuries).

That's unfortunate... but it's a fact.

I think the Giants FO is doing the responsible thing here... and I support them.

Finally, the Giants are being run right. Seems like it has been a long time.

Long term vs short term. Short term the Giants have no skill people worth a damn after Saquon for this season. Maybe that changes in the future. It looks like Barkley will play this season anyway.

 

[Gman]

Long term vs short term. Short term the Giants have no skill people worth a damn after Saquon for this season.

^ This isn't true.

The new TE from the Raiders is a weapon.

Maybe that changes in the future. It looks like Barkley will play this season anyway.

I agree.. I think Barkley plays.

It makes zero economic sense for him not to.

 

[fightinfunbags]

^ This isn't true.

The new TE from the Raiders is a weapon.

He’s broken down and not the same player. He’s even less effective when the defense doesn’t have to account for anything resembling a special receiver. TEs are easy to bracket as in line guys and with no WR you worry about sending extra help to, when Waller is split out the defense can double whether he’s outside or in the slot. No Barkley means they don’t have to worry about taking that extra safety to play run. They can concentrate on Waller. Giants order of operation is wrong. You have to grab the elite WR first. I think they sent that guy to KC.

I agree.. I think Barkley plays.

It makes zero economic sense for him not to.

Agree. The NFL is the worst. The NFLPA is the worst union among the four major sports. They can just franchise him again. The power ownership has in this sport is just ridiculous. The NHL makes 1/3 of the revenue and somehow they can guarantee contracts. The flattening out and damn near regression of salaries at the RB position is just disgusting.

That being said…I wear my team’s strategy at RB as a badge of honor and a template of how it should be done so I’m absolutely a hypocrite on this stuff.

 

[Gman]

He’s broken down and not the same player.

I don't see how you can know this for a fact.

He’s even less effective when the defense doesn’t have to account for anything resembling a special receiver. TEs are easy to bracket as in line guys and with no WR you worry about sending extra help to, when Waller is split out the defense can double whether he’s outside or in the slot.

The Giants do have speed at WR to account for.

No Barkley means they don’t have to worry about taking that extra safety to play run. They can concentrate on Waller. Giants order of operation is wrong. You have to grab the elite WR first. I think they sent that guy to KC.

lol... the guy they sent to KC is most definitely not an elite WR.

Agree. The NFL is the worst. The NFLPA is the worst union among the four major sports. They can just franchise him again. The power ownership has in this sport is just ridiculous. The NHL makes 1/3 of the revenue and somehow they can guarantee contracts. The flattening out and damn near regression of salaries at the RB position is just disgusting.

That being said…I wear my team’s strategy at RB as a badge of honor and a template of how it should be done so I’m absolutely a hypocrite on this stuff.

The Giants are (finally) trying to play things smart too.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I don't see how you can know this for a fact.

I’ve seen him play. He doesn’t have the same explosion he once had and he doesn’t have that top end speed that allowed him to stretch defenses in Oakland before he started to get banged up.

The Giants do have speed at WR to account for.

Speed is one thing. Talent is another. Nobody in that WR room you have to game plan for. In 12 or 13 of 17 weeks the defense will have a head to head advantage secondary vs that WR room.

lol... the guy they sent to KC is most definitely not an elite WR.

I disagree. I think he’s really dangerous with the ball in his hands. Now add in the best QB in the game and a head coach who is great at getting his playmakers the ball in space and think he’s a 1200 yard WR this year.

The Giants are (finally) trying to play things smart too.

I like Dabol. I think Giants fans are expecting too much too fast though. They opened 7-2 last year and then finished 3-6-1 including playoffs. I think they will hover around 8-9 wins again this season and with a good off season and draft next year could be a legit Super Bowl contender.

 

[Gman]

I’ve seen him play. He doesn’t have the same explosion he once had and he doesn’t have that top end speed that allowed him to stretch defenses in Oakland before he started to get banged up.

Speed is one thing. Talent is another. Nobody in that WR room you have to game plan for. In 12 or 13 of 17 weeks the defense will have a head to head advantage secondary vs that WR room.

I disagree. I think he’s really dangerous with the ball in his hands. Now add in the best QB in the game and a head coach who is great at getting his playmakers the ball in space and think he’s a 1200 yard WR this year.

I like Dabol. I think Giants fans are expecting too much too fast though. They opened 7-2 last year and then finished 3-6-1 including playoffs. I think they will hover around 8-9 wins again this season and with a good off season and draft next year could be a legit Super Bowl contender.

Ok... fair enough.

Yours can be the last word here... only what happens on the field will answer these questions.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Ok... fair enough.

Yours can be the last word here... only what happens on the field will answer these questions.

Haha yep. I’m now having visions of this post getting bumped around Thanksgiving by you.

 

[fastforward]

How many teams have reached or won SB with those recent and enormous QB contracts? I understand what you are saying, but some teams sign huge QB contracts, ignore other team needs and get nowhere.

If it’s all about watching a super QB choke on an average team, a team that has ignored other key positions, hey knock yourself out.

As some have said, it’s all about the guaranteed money more than the headline grabbing contract.

Again, if rookie contracts increase by 3% when the cap goes up by 8% then whatever is left over after paying for the bottom of the roster is going to go to the players who are hardest to replace. QB pay has been going up by over 10% every year bar 2 - when the cap shrank after the no-cap year in 2011 and because of covid19 empty stadiums in 2021. Every quality QB on a 2nd or 3rd contract had a contract that was enormous for that time. There have been multiple QBs on rookie contracts who have started Super Bowls in recent years. However, off the top of my head Mahomes is the only guy who won. By that reckoning almost all of the Super Bowls this century have been won by teams with enormous QB contracts. It's just that those older contracts don't look so enormous nowadays.

 

[SteelersPride]

Again, if rookie contracts increase by 3% when the cap goes up by 8% then whatever is left over after paying for the bottom of the roster is going to go to the players who are hardest to replace. QB pay has been going up by over 10% every year bar 2 - when the cap shrank after the no-cap year in 2011 and because of covid19 empty stadiums in 2021. Every quality QB on a 2nd or 3rd contract had a contract that was enormous for that time. There have been multiple QBs on rookie contracts who have started Super Bowls in recent years. However, off the top of my head Mahomes is the only guy who won. By that reckoning almost all of the Super Bowls this century have been won by teams with enormous QB contracts. It's just that those older contracts don't look so enormous nowadays.

Mahomea won year two.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Again, if rookie contracts increase by 3% when the cap goes up by 8% then whatever is left over after paying for the bottom of the roster is going to go to the players who are hardest to replace. QB pay has been going up by over 10% every year bar 2 - when the cap shrank after the no-cap year in 2011 and because of covid19 empty stadiums in 2021. Every quality QB on a 2nd or 3rd contract had a contract that was enormous for that time. There have been multiple QBs on rookie contracts who have started Super Bowls in recent years. However, off the top of my head Mahomes is the only guy who won. By that reckoning almost all of the Super Bowls this century have been won by teams with enormous QB contracts. It's just that those older contracts don't look so enormous nowadays.

I think only about 1/3 or slightly more have been won by the huge contract guys tbh. Part of that due to Brady always taking less in NE but granted you could throw in the Bucs win with him. But just off the top of my head, I could only come up with the Manning bros. (4), Big Ben (1), Mahomes (1), Stafford (1), not sure if Rodgers was paid before his, maybe missing one, Brad Johnson? Flacco wasn't paid until after his.

 

[Dude]

Again, if rookie contracts increase by 3% when the cap goes up by 8% then whatever is left over after paying for the bottom of the roster is going to go to the players who are hardest to replace. QB pay has been going up by over 10% every year bar 2 - when the cap shrank after the no-cap year in 2011 and because of covid19 empty stadiums in 2021. Every quality QB on a 2nd or 3rd contract had a contract that was enormous for that time. There have been multiple QBs on rookie contracts who have started Super Bowls in recent years. However, off the top of my head Mahomes is the only guy who won. By that reckoning almost all of the Super Bowls this century have been won by teams with enormous QB contracts. It's just that those older contracts don't look so enormous nowadays.

Again, it is matter of opinion more than percentages, because it depends on the team. You can’t just apply %s and come up with a formula that says: Pay what the market says you need to pay to grab top QB talent, and ignore the rest. If you don’t believe QB contracts in general are spiraling out of control, it’s your opinion and I disagree.

Back on topic, I believe the Daniel Jones contract is fair, good for the Giants, and not excessive compared to others, and please stop using Mahomes as an example of why QBs should be payed a ton. It is not relevant to the point.