GDT - San Jose at Buffalo - Dec 9, 4:00 PM

[filosofy29]

Wow, what has happened to Dan Boyle??? Nice decision there Danny.....really??? The Couture/Clowe line works really fucking hard to get the puck in the zone, you take it down low and pass it into a defenders feet? That's all you got? I love your passion and effort Boyler, but you've aged 10 years in 1 offseason.

As far as I'm concerned too, Patty, Joe and Heater can take a fucking seat on the bench. What a bunch of heartless wonders.....I have no problem with losing hockey games.....that happens to the best of them.....when you don't show any fucking effort for multiple games straight and I have a big problem. We have $21.6million tied up in a conglomeration of zero effort.....then we wonder why the playoffs are such a foreign language to this team.

/Rant.

I WISH the defense was the worst part of the Sharks.

 

[Cbrower91]

what's the downside of giving patty one game to think about it?

With the ENG there, he's now -16 on the year, with 2 points and -11 in the last 8 games. He is killing the team singlehandedly. This L is 100% on patty.

lol your killing me dude 100% his fault. I wouldnt go that far. By not producing or atleast being sharp on the defensive side of the puck, he is hurting the team but he isnt killing them.

The simple fact is this team is a a 1.75 line team maybe a 2 line team. The bottom lines are brutal, Mcginn is a waste of a roster spot, if any player should be dumped its Setoguchi.

When your star players slump other guys need to step up, its not happening

 

[filosofy29]

FYI.....Jumbo Heated Patty combined was a -9.....I wonder what TMac means by leadership needs to step up??? At least the effort was there for them.....

 

[Cbrower91]

He said they need internal pressure, like a bad poop cramp.

 

[SharkFan0720]

Filo, that was said perfectly. I have no problem with losing, its a lack of effort that I cant stand. It takes effort to win championships. Look at the fricking Giants, not a bunch of talent, but a bunch of blue collared fighters. Everyone will say well Detroit and Chicago won championships and there supremely talented and arent blue collared teams. Why do those teams win the cup in my book? Because of guys like Holmstrom and Byugflin (no idea how to spell it). They have nasty guys who get in front of the net and make a huge difference in the playoffs. We have a 1st line of three pansies. The sad thing is when Jumbo plays mad hes scary good, but the guy just has softie DNA. Trade Marleau for Steve Ott, Im not being entirely serious, but it takes guys like Ott to win cups. Hockey is a physical game and when you have a bunch of pansies on your first line skating around not getting physical you arent going to win. Dont tell me superstars dont hit, Ovechkin is always in the top of the league in hits and hes arguably the best player in the world.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

He said they need internal pressure, like a bad poop cramp.

They need a rectal-cranial extraction is what they need.

 

[sjrules99]

lol your killing me dude 100% his fault. I wouldnt go that far. By not producing or atleast being sharp on the defensive side of the puck, he is hurting the team but he isnt killing them.

The simple fact is this team is a a 1.75 line team maybe a 2 line team. The bottom lines are brutal, Mcginn is a waste of a roster spot, if any player should be dumped its Setoguchi.

When your star players slump other guys need to step up, its not happening

alright, alright, not 100%. he wasnt a -6 (that woulda been impressive, even for him). However, he did singlehanded gift wrap the game winning goal and my frustration with him spans a loooong time of these kind of extended heartless stretches including the last 8 or so games. It wouldnt surprise me if suddenly he puts up 15 pts in the next 10 games with a +10, but he is just completely loafing and that kills me. Aside from a Dman like boyle who plays 30 mins or a goalie, its hard for any single player to lose a game singlehandedly, but for a forward, patty has been pretty impressively bad.

By the way, to cmon, yes pavs has struggled but he still hustles and he was largely the key to murray's goal flying in front of miller. Even when he struggles, he hustles and he just lacks the pure skill of patty (and thus gets paid 3M less), and he's pretty solid defensively which is why everyone describes him as the swiss army knife and praises his leadership and two-way play.

Mcginn? well, I give up on him too. He does stink and I cant defend him anymore.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

alright, alright, not 100%. he wasnt a -6 (that woulda been impressive, even for him). However, he did singlehanded gift wrap the game winning goal and my frustration with him spans a loooong time of these kind of extended heartless stretches including the last 8 or so games. It wouldnt surprise me if suddenly he puts up 15 pts in the next 10 games with a +10, but he is just completely loafing and that kills me. Aside from a Dman like boyle who plays 30 mins or a goalie, its hard for any single player to lose a game singlehandedly, but for a forward, patty has been pretty impressively bad.

By the way, to cmon, yes pavs has struggled but he still hustles and he was largely the key to murray's goal flying in front of miller. Even when he struggles, he hustles and he just lacks the pure skill of patty (and thus gets paid 3M less), and he's pretty solid defensively which is why everyone describes him as the swiss army knife and praises his leadership and two-way play.

Mcginn? well, I give up on him too. He does stink and I cant defend him anymore.

Other than on the Murray goal Pavs was a huge loafer tonight as well. It was probably the reason McLellan left him off the ice late in the game. Pavs effort level during this receint stretch of games hasn't been much better than Marleau's. Yes, in the past he's been a guy you could rely on for 110% almost night-in and night-out. This year however he has shown a lot of lazy tendencies and has had just as many no-show nights as he has full effort nights. You consistantly point out Marleau's +/- as if it means anything but Pav's is nearly as bad and deservedly so.

 

[MrChangoT97]

All I have to say is Clowe should have the C on his jersey! That guy will not quit, has ballz of steal, a true leader! Anybody see how he was bleeding like a river when he was high sticked? Either he didn't know, or he wasn't going to give up like a little bitch! He stayed on the ice and kept playing!


Clowe for captain!

 

[Cbrower91]

Only thing about Clowe is that Patty and some other sharks have been so bad you don't notice when Clowe goes disappering act. But its the theme with this team now for the last 5 years

 

[sjrules99]

Other than on the Murray goal Pavs was a huge loafer tonight as well. It was probably the reason McLellan left him off the ice late in the game. Pavs effort level during this receint stretch of games hasn't been much better than Marleau's. Yes, in the past he's been a guy you could rely on for 110% almost night-in and night-out. This year however he has shown a lot of lazy tendencies and has had just as many no-show nights as he has full effort nights. You consistantly point out Marleau's +/- as if it means anything but Pav's is nearly as bad and deservedly so.

yeah, I'm not fully defending pavs. He's had a bad year thus far, but it's not in marleau territory. Besides, if we put them on the same level, then patty needs to give back 3M in cap space. Value is everything in the cap world, and for 4M, pavs has been very respectable. patty for 7? that's a killer.

Of course, what drives me nuts is that he CAN be the best player on the ice by far. In the chicago series, he was basically the only shark to show up and it was awesome to watch him fly around out there as the only guy to match chicago's speed. When he wants to, he is worth all 7M and more. The consistent effort from the guy though has basically never been there throughout his career which just infuriates fans.

I bet if they plopped patty on a team sans jumbo, and made him a centerpiece player, he'd put up 25 goals and 50 pts regularly. His skillset is there, but his heart is not.

 

[sjrules99]

Only thing about Clowe is that Patty and some other sharks have been so bad you don't notice when Clowe goes disappering act. But its the theme with this team now for the last 5 years

It's true. Though I wonder if he has turned a corner in his career. He's just turned 28 and is entering his prime. This is really only his 3rd full season in the league and he has steadily improved since he really broke out full time in 2008-9 (yes, he kinda broke out in 2006-7, but was hurt nearly all year in 2007-8). Right now, he dominating the game with his size and skill along the boards. He looks an awful like like jumbo as he controls the play. I think he might now be emerging as something real...

 

[Cmon_WTF]

yeah, I'm not fully defending pavs. He's had a bad year thus far, but it's not in marleau territory. Besides, if we put them on the same level, then patty needs to give back 3M in cap space. Value is everything in the cap world, and for 4M, pavs has been very respectable. patty for 7? that's a killer.

Of course, what drives me nuts is that he CAN be the best player on the ice by far. In the chicago series, he was basically the only shark to show up and it was awesome to watch him fly around out there as the only guy to match chicago's speed. When he wants to, he is worth all 7M and more. The consistent effort from the guy though has basically never been there throughout his career which just infuriates fans.

I bet if they plopped patty on a team sans jumbo, and made him a centerpiece player, he'd put up 25 goals and 50 pts regularly. His skillset is there, but his heart is not.

A coach of mine a long, long,...long time ago said there are hockey players and then there are guys who play hockey. Right now Marleau is playing like the latter of the two.

I tend to be a little less critical of Marleau than most here. There are a few things that I have seen with the Marleau-Thornton-Heatley line that make me question if the tremendous defensive responisbility being placed on Marleau is a large part of his current substandard play. Thornton has been very poor in his own zone this year. He's never been great defensively but he has been worse this year than any since coming to San Jose IMO. Thornton and Heatley have been even more prone to turnovers this year as well. Added to that is he's often on the ice with Boyle who's defensive play has declined this year and been a turnover machine himself. To compound things Marleau spends most of his ES ice time against the other teams top scoring forwards. I just wonder how much effect Thornton, Heatley, and to some extent Boyle's poor defensive play has led to Marleau's poor play. He's playing like he's completely scared to make a mistake and it's just making things worse.

 

[sjrules99]

cmon, that doesnt make a whole ton of sense, since he was removed from that line for a while and still stunk it up. Also, boyle is out there half the game, so that same argument would have to be applied to every single forward on the team. Lastly, While heater and jumbo havent been great, they have both been a whole lot better than patty and were actually far better when patty was demoted.

Heater has points in 7 of the last 9 games with 10 points in those games. jumbo has struggled a bit since the suspension, but even he has pts in 7 of the last 9 with 9 pts in those games total. Compare that with patty's disaster (2 pts and -11) and it would seem that he is the anchor on that line, especially since before his pairing with pavs, pavs had 10 pts in the 7 games and since he has 3 pts in the last 8 games. Not saying it's exclusively patty's fault at all but I'm also not sure sure that it's such a random coincidence.

Couple all this with his history of bipolar play and halfhearted efforts, and it's hard to defend the guy again and make even more excuses.

 

[rares]

We get it.. you hate Marleau.

I haven't watched these last couple 4:00-4:30PM start time games due to work and I'm sure he's played pretty shitty but give me a fucking break with the "it's all his fault" part.

Or the bullshit +/- ratings that nobody gives a shit about.

He's going through a rough spell... but he's still 3rd in goals and 4th in points on the team... without basically having contributed jack shit in the last 5-6 games.

When the season's over, his stats will be great like they always are. I'm not worried about that.

It's just ridiculous (and funny) to see all the scapegoating here. The whole time fucking sucks and is a #8 seed at best, yet it's his fault all along that Dougie is a shitty GM who made questionable decisions right and left during the offseason.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[rares]

PS. What I'm trying to say is... even if Marleau did give it his best (he clearly isn't.. for whatever reason or excuse as you call it), the team would still be average at best for all the known personnel issues. The only difference would be that you'd all be piling it on someone else.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

cmon, that doesnt make a whole ton of sense, since he was removed from that line for a while and still stunk it up. Also, boyle is out there half the game, so that same argument would have to be applied to every single forward on the team. Lastly, While heater and jumbo havent been great, they have both been a whole lot better than patty and were actually far better when patty was demoted.

Heater has points in 7 of the last 9 games with 10 points in those games. jumbo has struggled a bit since the suspension, but even he has pts in 7 of the last 9 with 9 pts in those games total. Compare that with patty's disaster (2 pts and -11) and it would seem that he is the anchor on that line, especially since before his pairing with pavs, pavs had 10 pts in the 7 games and since he has 3 pts in the last 8 games. Not saying it's exclusively patty's fault at all but I'm also not sure sure that it's such a random coincidence.

Couple all this with his history of bipolar play and halfhearted efforts, and it's hard to defend the guy again and make even more excuses.

He was off that line for less than two games because Mitchell wasn't hacking it along side Thornton. Detroit was the 1st game (Even then Marleau spent some ES time with Thornton) and in the Philly game he was back on that line half way through the game. In that breif time Heatley/Thornton combined for one ES point. I'm not sure where you are getting that they were better without him.

Pavelski had gone three straight games without an ES point before Marleau was switched with Mitchell. And the last ES point he'd scored was on a line with Marleau and Heatley.

 

[filosofy29]

We get it.. you hate Marleau.

I haven't watched these last couple 4:00-4:30PM start time games due to work and I'm sure he's played pretty shitty but give me a fucking break with the "it's all his fault" part.

Or the bullshit +/- ratings that nobody gives a shit about.

He's going through a rough spell... but he's still 3rd in goals and 4th in points on the team... without basically having contributed jack shit in the last 5-6 games.

When the season's over, his stats will be great like they always are. I'm not worried about that.

It's just ridiculous (and funny) to see all the scapegoating here. The whole time fucking sucks and is a #8 seed at best, yet it's his fault all along that Dougie is a shitty GM who made questionable decisions right and left during the offseason.

Give me a fucking break.

Ya, and you fucking hate Doug Wilson, I get it. Still doesn't stop your incessant whining (all the while a majority of the time you are dead wrong).

Marleau has been bad but it's definitely not even close to 100% his fault. That said, Rules and objectivity go together like oil and water when it comes to Marleau.....kind of like you.

+/- is a bullshit stat, I agree there.

Agreed as well, I think Marleau will snap out of it. Hopefully he does it sooner rather than later because he's been very bad.

Marleau's stats aren't always great at the end of the year, but I presume that they will get back to about 80 points give or take.

Only one who's scapegoating Marleau is Rules.....your acting as if the entire board wants Marleau off of the team. Marleau, Clowe and Couture are my favorite players on the team, why would I want them traded? It's funny how you use DWil as your scapegoat for everything and then get mad when others do it to Marleau.....it just drips with irony.

Yes, please, give me a fucking break.

 

[sjrules99]

I scapegoated patty for that game, not the whole season. He singlehandedly was responsible for the GWG and was not -3 for no reason. He had several awful turnovers and while he wasnt the only bad one (demers giftwrapped 1 or 2 as well), I have higher expectations of him than, say, demers or mcginn, and to hold them on the same plane would say a lot about patty.

+/- is not a complete BS stat. There is a reason that nicky lidstrom is + 2 billion for his career. largely +/- is relative to the team you play for and it's more a team stat than individual, and of course who you match up with is important for it as well (i.e. against top pairing D or defensively against top line of other team), but it is not useless in judging a player's effectiveness at both ends to a certain degree. Within a certain team, a 10, 15, or 20 +/- disparity does mean something particularly if the players play a similar role and similar amount of ice time.

I apologize for the patty rant of earlier, and to be honest, a big difference in the game was simply the fluky first goal since after all, it was a 1 goal game. However, after patty fumbled that 4-2 goal out of sheer laziness, I just kinda lost it there. My apologies, and I hope patty does turn it around, because his struggles highlight his importance to the team's success.

 

[rares]

Only one who's scapegoating Marleau is Rules.....your acting as if the entire board wants Marleau off of the team. Marleau, Clowe and Couture are my favorite players on the team, why would I want them traded? It's funny how you use DWil as your scapegoat for everything and then get mad when others do it to Marleau.....it just drips with irony.

Yes, please, give me a fucking break.

Who asked you anything, filo? :p

I may not have read this thread closely but I swear I saw "down with Marleau's head" posts from about 14 people all of a sudden... it seemed a bit much.

As for my man crush on Marleau... It was none other than me who started this here thread almost a week ago asking WTF he's doing out there.

I don't think I've ever disappeared into the woods when Marleau's play has sucked... I've called him out for being lazy many times too.

Anyway, not really sure what my point is here... it hurts my little feelings and makes teh baby Jesus cry when all you blame no one else than Marleau. Well, that and you're all wrong. :p

PS. Comparing me blaming Dougie for a lot of shit vs. people blaming one player for the team sucking is hilarious, BTW. The former, is actually possible (and true in the case of this clueless GM) while the latter, well... not really plausible.