GDT - San Jose at Buffalo - Dec 9, 4:00 PM

[sjrules99]

Who asked you anything, filo? :p

I may not have read this thread closely but I swear I saw "down with Marleau's head" posts from about 14 people all of a sudden... it seemed a bit much.

As for my man crush on Marleau... It was none other than me who started this here thread almost a week ago asking WTF he's doing out there.

I don't think I've ever disappeared into the woods when Marleau's play has sucked... I've called him out for being lazy many times too.

Anyway, not really sure what my point is here... it hurts my little feelings and makes teh baby Jesus cry when all you blame no one else than Marleau. Well, that and you're all wrong. :p

rares, you are right that it's not all patty... I was just mad and overreacted. Old supressed rage bubbling back up, I guess...

It's not all patty's fault and there are many culprits to the early stumbling (2/3 of the D... nice to see pickles join the team, the entire bottom 6, pavs, a bit of inconsistent tending to name a few...) as well as dougie's poor offseason which we all agree was one of his worst thus far.

that said, among the current top 6, patty is having the worst season IMO, and he surely isn't providing $7M of value out there, and it's not like he's getting chance after chance and is snakebit, it's more that he seems to be loafing, and there is just no excuse for that from a veteran with his skill set. They say in baseball that speed never goes into a slump. Well, the same should exist in hockey, and patty should still be flying all over the place even if he isn't quite finishing. He's not, and that's just not OK, particularly since he doesnt bring a physical game to at least help the team when he isnt producing offensively (Like clowe can).

 

[filosofy29]

Who asked you anything, filo? :p

I may not have read this thread closely but I swear I saw "down with Marleau's head" posts from about 14 people all of a sudden... it seemed a bit much.

As for my man crush on Marleau... It was none other than me who started this here thread almost a week ago asking WTF he's doing out there.

I don't think I've ever disappeared into the woods when Marleau's play has sucked... I've called him out for being lazy many times too.

Anyway, not really sure what my point is here... it hurts my little feelings and makes teh baby Jesus cry when all you blame no one else than Marleau. Well, that and you're all wrong. :p

PS. Comparing me blaming Dougie for a lot of shit vs. people blaming one player for the team sucking is hilarious, BTW. The former, is actually possible (and true in the case of this clueless GM) while the latter, well... not really plausible.

Shenanigans and you know it. If DWil was as bad of GM as you make him out to be, the Sharks would have been bottom feeders a long time ago. I seriously think it would be interesting if you followed another team for 1 entire year how drastically your opinion of DWil might change. 29 other teams hate their General Manager (except for Detroit.....even then you'll probably have some whiners). Go follow the New York Rangers for a year; go follow the Atlanta Thrashers for a year; go follow the Minnesota Wild for a year; go follow the Calgary Flames for a year.....etc. See the point I'm making now? Just like when Marleau goes through a 7 game slump you have a bunch of retreads who want to trade him for a pack of frozen pucks, you get the same people thinking that their GM is completely incompetent because of a couple bad contracts in Wallin, Huskins and Mitchell. Would it really make you feel better if Mitchell was making $500K but Patty was making $7.75mil? Same shit. Would it really make you feel better if Joe was making $8.5mil and Wallin was making $1mil? Same shit in reality. In each ofthese scenarios, you have players that should be making around the amount as far as their worth is concerned to the team.

At least DWil's abortions of contracts are short term. The Boogey man is signed for 3 years in NYR.

As a side note, you're right Rules, +/- is not a COMPLETE bullshit stat, but it's really close to one. You've yet to demonstrate all the chinks in +/-'s armor for me to believe you use it correctly (even though you may know every single one of it's faults.....I just haven't seen it yet).

 

[rares]

I gave up on Dougie, sorry. He is dead to me. There is absolutely not one thing he can do right now to gain back my respect and trust after some of his recent moves.

He was a great GM. 3-4 years ago, he was probably one of the top GMs in the league. I enjoyed the success of our team and didn't question his moves. He knew what he was doing, what the team needed; he got things done. Most everything seemed to go his way in trades. It was awesome.

Then, he started making fail move after fail move and throwing money away on piece-of-shit players.

He traded away good players, brought in garbage ones (or sat on his ass doing jack shit while other teams were signing good players) and on and on.

Right now, as in.. in the past 1-2+ years and currently as we speak, he's a shitty GM that I want fired/let go ASAP.

But anyway, to me, he's mis-managed the team bigtime. I can't look past his recent mistakes, sorry. So yes, he's #1 on my shit list of anything Sharks-related.

EDIT: I'm also not saying that he's the worst GM out there. He's just not good anymore. Time for him to move on to manage another team. Hope it works out for him there. I just don't want him mis-managing this one anymore. He can't do it.

 

[rares]

rares, you are right that it's not all patty... I was just mad and overreacted. Old supressed rage bubbling back up, I guess...

It's not all patty's fault and there are many culprits to the early stumbling (2/3 of the D... nice to see pickles join the team, the entire bottom 6, pavs, a bit of inconsistent tending to name a few...) as well as dougie's poor offseason which we all agree was one of his worst thus far.

that said, among the current top 6, patty is having the worst season IMO, and he surely isn't providing $7M of value out there, and it's not like he's getting chance after chance and is snakebit, it's more that he seems to be loafing, and there is just no excuse for that from a veteran with his skill set. They say in baseball that speed never goes into a slump. Well, the same should exist in hockey, and patty should still be flying all over the place even if he isn't quite finishing. He's not, and that's just not OK, particularly since he doesnt bring a physical game to at least help the team when he isnt producing offensively (Like clowe can).

It's fine dude... We've been going at each other for years now and I know how you think. To you, the stats-to-salary ratio is pretty much the most important thing. No matter what goes on with the team, it always seems to boil down to "is this player really worth the $X million? or is it more like $X-2 million?"

I'm too lazy to look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure that Marleau's numbers were right up there with Heatley/Thornton for the team lead about 8-10 days ago... and had been the entire season up until that point.

So I don't buy him having a terrible year yet, sorry. He's having a terrible 2 weeks. The rest of the season prior to that, he was fine. Producing when others weren't, hustling on plays, not being a turnover machine, etc.

Anyway... I'll bow out of this one, sorry. We'll just keep going in circles otherwise.

I think we'll just all have to agree that he's got to stop sucking so much. The sooner, the better (for the team). For us here, it won't really matter; we've made up our minds already anyway.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I scapegoated patty for that game, not the whole season. He singlehandedly was responsible for the GWG and was not -3 for no reason. He had several awful turnovers and while he wasnt the only bad one (demers giftwrapped 1 or 2 as well), I have higher expectations of him than, say, demers or mcginn, and to hold them on the same plane would say a lot about patty.

+/- is not a complete BS stat. There is a reason that nicky lidstrom is + 2 billion for his career. largely +/- is relative to the team you play for and it's more a team stat than individual, and of course who you match up with is important for it as well (i.e. against top pairing D or defensively against top line of other team), but it is not useless in judging a player's effectiveness at both ends to a certain degree. Within a certain team, a 10, 15, or 20 +/- disparity does mean something particularly if the players play a similar role and similar amount of ice time.

I apologize for the patty rant of earlier, and to be honest, a big difference in the game was simply the fluky first goal since after all, it was a 1 goal game. However, after patty fumbled that 4-2 goal out of sheer laziness, I just kinda lost it there. My apologies, and I hope patty does turn it around, because his struggles highlight his importance to the team's success.

The bolded part I do not agree with. He was not siglehandedly responsible for that goal.

My first question would be, why was Dan Boyle breaking out of the defensive zone before Marleau had full control of the puck, and even worse, doing it while Marleau had a forechecker right on his back. Boyle's job on that play was to support Marleau down low and he failed miserably to do that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if McLellan and the coaching staff put more blame on Boyle for that goal than Marleau.

2nd Question, why was Thornton floating at center ice when Marleau was headed the opposite direction in his own zone and under forechecking pressure? Why did he not recognize the 2nd Buffalo player streaking into the zone as is his defensive responsibility?

3rd, where the hell was Murray? It's his job to cover the front of the net until that puck is safely under control and headed out of the zone. He was no where to be seen.

Marleau's inability to protect the puck was a huge part of that play but there was a lot more wrong with what happened there then just the Marleau turnover.

 

[sjrules99]

I dont buy the blame on boyle, murray or jumbo. Patty had full possession, and boyle predicted him to go up the boards and if he stayed down low he would have beenin patty or niemi's way. Patty just fumbled it completely unexpectedly. He goofed and there is no way that the rest of the team could have predicted his mistake.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I dont buy the blame on boyle, murray or jumbo. Patty had full possession, and boyle predicted him to go up the boards and if he stayed down low he would have beenin patty or niemi's way. Patty just fumbled it completely unexpectedly. He goofed and there is no way that the rest of the team could have predicted his mistake.

Marleau was headed behind the net with the puck with a forechecker on his back. Boyle needs to recognize that situation and he failed miserably doing so. Explain to me how he expects Marleau to make an exit pass out of the zone when he's got a forechecker on his back as is facing the complete opposite direction? Buy it or not there was a reason the 1st place McLellan went after that goal was scored was straight to Yawney and ripped him a new one on the bench.