Game of Thrones

[ill]

I agree. I love the one on one scenes when two people are discussing 'game theory'.
To that extent, we have been spoiled by these subtle nuances and now the show has to wrap up.
So, I appreciate all the sentiments echoed on here.
Seldom right, never wrong.....

I agree. The scene with Tyrion and Dany talking about strategy was good. More Tyrion screen time is always good.

This last episode was almost all beyond the wall and Winterfell. I think that scene and when Dany mounted the dragons were the only ones not.

 

[ill]

I didn't get the impression that Tormund was going south.
Figured the gang at East Watch would reinforce Castle Black or make their way to Winterfell.
Not sure about Beric.
Maybe they are all going south.

you might be right. I don't remember who got on the ship though.

I imagine it is Jon, Dany, Cersei, and Brienne in this meeting.

I don't like Sansa sending Brienne like that. Not that it is bad writing, I don't like it from Sansa's character standpoint.

 

[ill]

What We Learned Watching The Trailer For The 'Game Of Thrones' Finale

 

[Sparhawk]

I agree. The scene with Tyrion and Dany talking about strategy was good. More Tyrion screen time is always good.

This last episode was almost all beyond the wall and Winterfell. I think that scene and when Dany mounted the dragons were the only ones not.

Right. All scenes with Varys, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Bronn, Hound, Brienne, they all mean something because the characters have been conceptualized. We understand their motives. We empathize. We identify with their struggles. That's great storytelling. We weren't really wrapped up in Thoros, so him dying wasn't out of character. When these characters die, and they are going to die, it will be in a fashion that is most likely suitable to their cause. Some will be betrayed, some will sacrifice themselves, etc.

The other point is that why focus on the ice battle and Sansa/Arya so much.

They must be important plot points, especially as we know the plot is moving so fast.
There has to be a reason these scenes are worth showing us.
If the Night King is somehow tied to Bran, then maybe the Night King has visions. Maybe he knows where to find great big chains that were frozen oh so long ago. Maybe he can look into the future. I didn't check, but did they bring 3 spears, as if they knew all three dragons were going to show up??? Were they keeping Jon alive in the hopes that Dany would show up?

Another thing about Arya is that with her abilities, she could have looked like anyone if she chose to break into LF's room. Why not look like the serving wench from Walder Frey's place if she kept that mask? No, it's pretty clear that Arya is setting him up.

 

[chf]

I am one that did not enjoy the books, so I have been without source material for most of it. And there is a MASSIVE difference for cutting out something (Like Zombie Catelyn) and condensing a seasons worth of plot into a single episode. The shows creators set an arbitrary season limit, and once it became clear it was not feasible they chose cut out all the story building that made the show so great in the beginning and turn it into action packed fan service. I am not saying that is not also entertaining, but it is a far cry from what made the show great to begin with.

An entire season's worth of plot into a single episode? What are you talking about?

And it wasn't 'arbitrary.'

They decided from jump one book/season. I personally figured they'd HAVE to do 2 seasons per book, but nope, they were clear from the beginning 1 to 1. That was decided WHEN GRRM was involved in everything including fucking casting, so it's obvious he was on board.

'Action packed fan service?' Huh? AGAIN, it's not veering totally off script.

 

[chf]

Jaime

my bad.

 

[Superbelt]

That's a good question because even Jorah (his sigil is a bear) said he was a big fucker.

The question is why are the wight animals roaming free when the dead men and horses who are wights are tightly controlled by the white walkers?

I would think the NK would want to send out scouts all around to pick up any remaining living things to add to their forces.

 

[Mebert]

An entire season's worth of plot into a single episode? What are you talking about?

And it wasn't 'arbitrary.'

They decided from jump one book/season. I personally figured they'd HAVE to do 2 seasons per book, but nope, they were clear from the beginning 1 to 1. That was decided WHEN GRRM was involved in everything including fucking casting, so it's obvious he was on board.

'Action packed fan service?' Huh? AGAIN, it's not veering totally off script.

Are you really so trapped in being a fanboy that you can't see the change in pace?

 

[Inquisitor95]

I'm going to reserve judgment on the things that are bugging me until I see the final episode of the season.

And possibly the final episode of the show. Another horribly long wait is coming dammit.

 

[RegentDenali]

Im gonna go out on a limb here. They show the walker to everyone. Cersi acts like she has a stick up her butt the entire time playing queen and trying to still boss everyone around.
Even if the Lannisters agree to some type of semi-coordinated plan with the other armies, of course Cersi will be planning the betrayal at the end for Jon, Dany, and to kill all their forces. Jaime will be on the fence as usual.
Good chance she refuses to have her army involved as she'll claim its a north issue and the whites wont come down that far south.

 

[chf]

Are you really so trapped in being a fanboy that you can't see the change in pace?

Of course I can see the change. I can also see why that is. The books are drawing to a close, and they can't REINTRODUCE stuff they've already cut out.

It is what it is.

A tv show isn't a book

 

[Inquisitor95]

Im gonna go out on a limb here. They show the walker to everyone. Cersi acts like she has a stick up her butt the entire time playing queen and trying to still boss everyone around.
Even if the Lannisters agree to some type of semi-coordinated plan with the other armies, of course Cersi will be planning the betrayal at the end for Jon, Dany, and to kill all their forces. Jaime will be on the fence as usual.
Good chance she refuses to have her army involved as she'll claim its a north issue and the whites wont come down that far south.

 

[Payton]

Just to follow up on this, the chains are probably mentioned in the 'notes' that George gave them, so unlike all us fools, they DID know about the chains.

AGAIN, why are these showrunners and writers who created a great TV show, that George in his own words in that article someone linked, praised up and down, who filmed the 'unfilmable,' why are they now fucking incompetent?

Or are people just fucking cranky because they don't have their inside book info anymore to fall back on, and have to just roll with S.O.D.?

Oh I do roll with S.O.D., but again, there just seems to be some simple little things that they could do so S.O.D. wouldn't be necessary every five minutes this season, I guess?

 

[Sparhawk]

Im gonna go out on a limb here. They show the walker to everyone. Cersi acts like she has a stick up her butt the entire time playing queen and trying to still boss everyone around.
Even if the Lannisters agree to some type of semi-coordinated plan with the other armies, of course Cersi will be planning the betrayal at the end for Jon, Dany, and to kill all their forces. Jaime will be on the fence as usual.
Good chance she refuses to have her army involved as she'll claim its a north issue and the whites wont come down that far south.

Any way Cersei can outmaneuver them and trap them without her dragons?
What if she plots to kill Jon/Dany with putting the two of them in a wildfire trap?

The season ends with Jon and Dany butt naked in an embrace, both unburnt and revealing to all that Jon is a Targaryean....

 

[Mebert]

Of course I can see the change. I can also see why that is. The books are drawing to a close, and they can't REINTRODUCE stuff they've already cut out.

It is what it is.

A tv show isn't a movie.

Because it is not a movie is why they had an opportunity to do it right. The issue is not adding content that you feel is missing. It's shit like Arya decides to go home from the crossroads inn, and then she is there. No anything, she jsut traveled half the continent in 1/8th the time she did it earlier.

Euron is at Kings landing, now he is at Dragon Stone, but look he is in kings landing again, oh but wait he is already at casterly rock.

They know they have limited episodes so they are trying to load too much into every one. The show is suffering for it. I don't think anyone has claimed the show is bad now, but it is not near what it used to be.

 

[chf]

Because it is not a movie is why they had an opportunity to do it right. The issue is not adding content that you feel is missing. It's shit like Arya decides to go home from the crossroads inn, and then she is there. No anything, she jsut traveled half the continent in 1/8th the time she did it earlier.

Euron is at Kings landing, now he is at Dragon Stone, but look he is in kings landing again, oh but wait he is already at casterly rock.

They know they have limited episodes so they are trying to load too much into every one. The show is suffering for it. I don't think anyone has claimed the show is bad now, but it is not near what it used to be.

My bad, typing before my brain fully engaged. I edited that to 'book.'

And YES, they have claimed the show is bad now. Just read the thread.

You want to say the show isn't perfect, <zip> from me.

 

[Mebert]

My bad, typing before my brain fully engaged. I edited that to 'book.'

And YES, they have claimed the show is bad now. Just read the thread.

You want to say the show isn't perfect, <zip> from me.

My bad, I assumed nobody had. I kind of skipped pages in the middle. Most of what I was reading agreed with my sentiment that the show is still very good, but not as good as it used to be. The main reason being the cramped episodes.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think the show is still fine. They compressed things which had made some of the show logic a little dodgy but the general premise of the show is fine. If we uncompress some of the big things that people are complaining about over this season it really isn't as bad.

1. The time of travel stuff is largely irrelevant and due solely to this being a TV show and not a book. It wouldn't have been terribly difficult to change the various time of travel stuff to be more logically consistent but it would have made the show dull. The books can pace better because readers aren't expecting constant payoff. Viewers are being pretty demanding in these final episodes that there isn't a lot of wasted time. So there have been few tangential episodes.

2. The Jon going across the Wall stuff is part holding pattern and part getting Dany on board with fighting the Night King. Perhaps it would have made more sense to have Dany fly recon but, again, not great TV. Clearly they don't want the Army of the Dead to cross the Wall this season so they had to come up with some sort of drama prior to them crossing the Wall

3. The Arya/Sansa conflict suffers mostly due to lack of screen time. They basically had to speed up the conflict in order to get to the payoff by the end of the season.

I also think that Jon gets way too much flak for doing "dumb" things when he often isn't given a lot of choices. Wight kidnapping wasn't his idea but really what were the better alternative options? Wait until the Night King is at Winterfell? Kill everyone in King's Landing? It's not a great plan but there weren't a lot of great options. I'll chalk up Jon leading the group to James T Kirk syndrome.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I agree with that.

But, Benjen did save Meera/Bran. He has obviously been tracking the undead army, so I don't think it's that big a stretch to have him come in and save the day.

And then you get this....

So Longclaw is like the White Ranger's sword in Might Morphin' Power Rangers?

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I didn't check, but did they bring 3 spears, as if they knew all three dragons were going to show up??? Were they keeping Jon alive in the hopes that Dany would show up?

This is what's confusing me about the whole situation. You would think they were saving the spears for the dragons because otherwise why not just start tossing them at Jon and the boys? The Night's King bullseyed a moving target in snowy, windy conditions from several hundred yards away. Hitting a bunch of people trapped on a rock isn't unreasonable for that guy.

It did seem like they were trying to keep the humans alive though. The lake froze over again (for whatever reason, the theory that the White Walkers made it colder and therefore the ice strong makes sense) so the wights were just standing there not attacking. They only attack once the Hound hits one in the face, they could have attacked much earlier than they did.

That said, I don't buy the "keep Jon alive so Dany comes" theory. That theory first assumes the White Walkers knew:

1. That Gendry got away
2. That he would make it back
3. That Dany exists in the first place
4. That Dany would come

Sure, fine. Assume they know all that because the Night's King is telepathic. Why at that point do you NEED to keep Jon alive? Dany is already coming. You have these guys all surrounded in the middle of a lake that is now frozen over. Why stand there and wait for one of those guys to chuck a rock before attacking?

I guess we all know the answer to pretty much all of this is "They needed drama and the Night's King to kill a dragon". But I just feel a lot of the issues/plot holes in this episode could have been avoided with small tweaks to the story.