Farrell probably deserves this

[richig07]

Honestly, I don't know where to find the numbers on this. How many times did Farrell send Sale back-out for another inning this season, when he had already past the 100 pitch plateau?

I watched probably 75% of Sale's starts, and it seemed like up until late-August/September when he started struggling. It was literally EVERY start, at least it felt like. April, May, June, July and early-August. This entire time when Sale was rolling, he would finish the 7th or something at 102-105 pitches and Farrell would trot him back out there for another.

What did you think was going to happen?

Pomeranz didn't get the run that Sale did, but he got quite a bit and has appeared to wear down a bit too over his past few starts.

That's just a complete lack of foresight, and a focus only on the instant gratification of beating the freakin Rays in May.

 

[redseat]

he deserves to be fired!

 

[Sgt Brutus]

hope those 300k's were worth it

 

[redseat]

hope those 300k's were worth it

he was set up on perfect rest... I don't think that played a role in his sucking yesterday.... Farrell had a lot to do with it as well...

Also - starting Marrero... Is this guy on crack?

 

[richig07]

he was set up on perfect rest... I don't think that played a role in his sucking yesterday.... Farrell had a lot to do with it as well...

Also - starting Marrero... Is this guy on crack?

Starting Marrero makes sense if Devers struggled with southpaws. To this point, he has not.

Sale was set-up on perfect rest, but they rode him into the ground during the regular season. This is exactly what the White Sox did with Sale here in Chicago. He never was the same in August/September. All the talk while he was here, was about how he was inevitably going to wind up injured. It's amazing... they must have either completely ignored that, or not have bothered to look into his history at all. Either way, it's incompetence.

 

[redseat]

Starting Marrero makes sense if Devers struggled with southpaws. To this point, he has not.

Sale was set-up on perfect rest, but they rode him into the ground during the regular season. This is exactly what the White Sox did with Sale here in Chicago. He never was the same in August/September. All the talk while he was here, was about how he was inevitably going to wind up injured. It's amazing... they must have either completely ignored that, or not have bothered to look into his history at all. Either way, it's incompetence.

he has not struggled with lefties, he should be in the game regardless... If you need a "defensive" replacement then you put in Marrero later on in the game.

I am starting to think Farrell is starting to get to the "incompetent" status right now.

 

[navamind]

I've never really leaned one way or another on Farrell, but I've always felt like he's never had a sense of urgency and he's made quite a few questionable decisions leaving pitchers in over the season. Sometimes it feels like he's left those pitchers in in an attempt to get them the "W".

Sale pitched like crap, but I don't think the 300 K's has anything to do with it though he was probably fatigued in August/September. I think you also have to give credit to the Astros, they were the best offensive team in baseball this season and they've certainly looked it. That being said, it feels as though the Red Sox sleepwalked into the postseason. Just a very disappointing series thus far. I know the Sox have overcome bigger deficits before (and an 0-2 deficit in 2003), but I feel like this series is over.

 

[navamind]

I'm fine with letting Farrell go if they have an actual replacement. I just don't want to see the Sox go for a retread manager. Letting Francona go was one of the dumbest decisions in franchise history.

 

[redseat]

I'm fine with letting Farrell go if they have an actual replacement. I just don't want to see the Sox go for a retread manager. Letting Francona go was one of the dumbest decisions in franchise history.

I'd love for them to go after Alex Cora.... Though I don't see him coming to Boston and honestly as much as I want Farrell gone he probably won't be

 

[tducey]

Yeah, Farrell got to go. guy has been a good manager but his best days are behind him IMO.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, Farrell got to go. guy has been a good manager but his best days are behind him IMO.

his best days were never that good to begin with. he made plenty of head scratchers in 2013 as well.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

his best days were never that good to begin with. he made plenty of head scratchers in 2013 as well.

Brandon Workman vs. Trevor Rosenthal, anyone?

 

[redseat]

Please take Butterfield with you as well!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I've never really leaned one way or another on Farrell, but I've always felt like he's never had a sense of urgency and he's made quite a few questionable decisions leaving pitchers in over the season. Sometimes it feels like he's left those pitchers in in an attempt to get them the "W".

Sale pitched like crap, but I don't think the 300 K's has anything to do with it though he was probably fatigued in August/September. I think you also have to give credit to the Astros, they were the best offensive team in baseball this season and they've certainly looked it. That being said, it feels as though the Red Sox sleepwalked into the postseason. Just a very disappointing series thus far. I know the Sox have overcome bigger deficits before (and an 0-2 deficit in 2003), but I feel like this series is over.

Sales fell off long before he faced the Astros. As for the results I'm not disappointed. The Sox overachieved IMO. I'm just not used to a Red Sox lineup full of .240-.270 hitters with no power. Their lineup sucked and once their starting pitching fell off they had no chance to beat the Astros.

Going into the season I saw a rotation with the best lefthander in the league and top 5 pitcher in all of baseball, the reigning Cy Young winner, one of the top lefthanders over the past 10 years in David Price, a knuckleballer who was an All Star last year, yet another lefthander who should be a solid 3 on most teams (Pomeranz) and a 6th starter in ERod who always had the potential to be pretty good. That looked like a pretty good rotation.

 

[navamind]

Sales fell off long before he faced the Astros. As for the results I'm not disappointed. The Sox overachieved IMO. I'm just not used to a Red Sox lineup full of .240-.270 hitters with no power. Their lineup sucked and once their starting pitching fell off they had no chance to beat the Astros.

Going into the season I saw a rotation with the best lefthander in the league and top 5 pitcher in all of baseball, the reigning Cy Young winner, one of the top lefthanders over the past 10 years in David Price, a knuckleballer who was an All Star last year, yet another lefthander who should be a solid 3 on most teams (Pomeranz) and a 6th starter in ERod who always had the potential to be pretty good. That looked like a pretty good rotation.

Rotation's great, though I don't think Wright's going to be an All-Star ever again. Still makes for nice depth, but I don't see him cracking the top 5. Porcello had a very disappointing followup to his CYA season (even though regression was to be expected), but he still managed a 98 ERA+ and 203.1 innings. There's plenty of value in that.

the problem with the offense was that just about everyone underperformed their projections by a good margin, especially Betts/Bogaerts/Hanley. It all comes down to whether those players improve on their 2017 seasons. Benintendi was up and down in his first full season, but even when he struggled he showed decent plate discipline. I'm still iffy on his power output, but I think he'll be fine in regards to BA/OBP. The lack of production from 1B (Sox first basemen were 25th in wRC+) and DH really hurt. I'm not against running a 1B platoon with someone like Duda/Lind. I'm not high on Sam Travis.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Rotation's great, though I don't think Wright's going to be an All-Star ever again. Still makes for nice depth, but I don't see him cracking the top 5. Porcello had a very disappointing followup to his CYA season (even though regression was to be expected), but he still managed a 98 ERA+ and 203.1 innings. There's plenty of value in that.

the problem with the offense was that just about everyone underperformed their projections by a good margin, especially Betts/Bogaerts/Hanley. It all comes down to whether those players improve on their 2017 seasons. Benintendi was up and down in his first full season, but even when he struggled he showed decent plate discipline. I'm still iffy on his power output, but I think he'll be fine in regards to BA/OBP. The lack of production from 1B (Sox first basemen were 25th in wRC+) and DH really hurt. I'm not against running a 1B platoon with someone like Duda/Lind. I'm not high on Sam Travis.

Yeah this is a pretty good assessment. We all know Porcella is not a real Cy Young pitcher but he was really good last year and as the #3 guy that's pretty good. Hard to say about Wright, he is a knuckleballer so he does not need to be able to throw 96. But yeah the lineup was pathetic and it was not all the departure of Pappi. As you said those 3 were the main culprits but guys like JBJ, who I never trust with the bat in his hand, were way too up and down. What they got from their first baseman was exactly what they should have expected, and that's not good enough. I hope you are wrong on Travis, hard to say. I do think Devers is for real.

 

[navamind]

Yeah this is a pretty good assessment. We all know Porcella is not a real Cy Young pitcher but he was really good last year and as the #3 guy that's pretty good. Hard to say about Wright, he is a knuckleballer so he does not need to be able to throw 96. But yeah the lineup was pathetic and it was not all the departure of Pappi. As you said those 3 were the main culprits but guys like JBJ, who I never trust with the bat in his hand, were way too up and down. What they got from their first baseman was exactly what they should have expected, and that's not good enough. I hope you are wrong on Travis, hard to say. I do think Devers is for real.

JBJ is fine. Even with last year's below average production, he still managed to be a 2+ WAR outfielder because of his defense. It gives him a high floor, especially if he hits closer to 2015/2016 levels.

As for Travis, I just don't think there's enough pop. I think his ceiling is Casey Kotchman, though I'd be pretty happy with 2007 Kotchman or 2011 Kotchman. I think Josh Ockimey is a more intriguing 1B prospect, though he may be a DH. I just love his combination of power (even if it hasn't fully materialized) and OBP.

 

[redseat]

Steps Needed:

Release Hanley
Pitching needs to perform the way they can
Butterfield and Farrell (at least Butterfield) need to go
Pedroia probably should be gone too
Practice base running at minimum 4 hours every practice

 

[navamind]

it's not even so much that the Sox were bad at baserunning. They were just very aggressive (and a bit foolish at times), and when you try to take extra bases a lot, you're going to run into more outs. They were fine at stealing bases (77% rate, which was tied for 4th in MLB) and their XBT% (extra base taken percentage) was 5th. Sox certainly could have avoided some of those outs though.

2017 Major League Baseball Baserunning/Misc | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[redseat]

it's not even so much that the Sox were bad at baserunning. They were just very aggressive (and a bit foolish at times), and when you try to take extra bases a lot, you're going to run into more outs. They were fine at stealing bases (77% rate, which was tied for 4th in MLB) and their XBT% (extra base taken percentage) was 5th. Sox certainly could have avoided some of those outs though.

2017 Major League Baseball Baserunning/Misc | Baseball-Reference.com

Butterfield sent how many runners home when they clearly had NO shot! Hell it pretty much lost them last nights game!

That and Kimbrel