Eagles realease Mathis

[L.Freamon]

The Eagles wil be fine. You either get with the program (that's proven it wins) or get out.

I haven't posted much this year, so i know i missed some news. Could you bring me up to speed on what exactly chip kelly's won? I had some things come up when i had to check out and we were about 9-3 at that time. How'd that play out? Division title & First round bye? Wild Card?

 

[L.Freamon]

YAWN

A 30-something malcotent demands more money and pisses off all his teammates.
He plays a position that traditionally is one of lesser importance.
The Eagles actively try and trade him for 2 years, but not a single team offered even a 5th round pick.
The Eagle cut him.

I don't really see what the big deal is?

I would rather have a lesser talent with more team chemistry at that position, honestly than a more talented jackass.

scheme + talent >> scheme+"culture"

 

[L.Freamon]

I think the pro game is not really that much different than college. The average career is only about four years for both and your typically dealing with 25% roster churn every year in both. This sport is as much about intensity and preparation as anything else and that is what Chip is focused on.

The only real big difference is you have a cadre of players who earn 2nd and 3rd contracts and play for 8-12 years. You need these guys to be your team leaders and difference makers....not your malcontents who only show up and do the minimum. Chip didn't like McCoy, DJAX and Mathis as those guys.

Who are Chip's second contract guys??
- Jason Peters
- Jason Kelce
- Brent Celek
- Demarco Murray
- Darren Sproles
- Brandon Graham
- DeMeco Ryans
- Connor Barwin
- Malcolm Jenkins

These are exactly the sort of guys that you need as team leaders, and I don't get the impression Chip is having any difficulty managing this type of pro player. In fact two thirds of these guys have signed or re-signed under Chip. Chip just has little use for the guys that are more into the money and celebrity than the football.

Those guys will only be "Chip guys" as long as the ink is wet on their contracts. Then they will be gone too.

 

[PhillyGreen]

scheme + talent >> scheme+"culture"

I would not say that.

You need scheme + Talent + Cuture if you do not have all three you will not win anything.

 

[DaEagles]

I think the pro game is not really that much different than college.

HUGE difference. The difference is effort and $. College players play much much harder as they are playing for something. They have everything to lose and the coach can treat them as they wish.

NFL players are playing for $. Once they get it, they can shut it down. Coaches (rarely) can treat the players like shit and get away with it. It will get around an players will not wanna come play for them, current players will not want to continue playing there, and players can flat out just show up and cash that check.

If you don't think there's a huge difference between how you coach 18-22 year olds with nothing vs coaching 22-35 year olds with millions already in the bank or working on it, then I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[deerpathdave]

I haven't posted much this year, so i know i missed some news. Could you bring me up to speed on what exactly chip kelly's won? I had some things come up when i had to check out and we were about 9-3 at that time. How'd that play out? Division title & First round bye? Wild Card?

Well you seem to be more flamer then capable of a cogent discussion, but I will play along a little....

For the record, Chip has won 20 and lost 12 in two seasons with one playoff appearance and a loss. Pretty damn good record for a rookie coach without a decent QB.

But what we are seeing happen is perhaps the most dissatisfied got around with that record is Chip Kelly himself. He has reacted to this success by jettisoning nearly half the starting players. This is one of the largest makeovers you will ever see to a winning team.

 

[deerpathdave]

HUGE difference. The difference is effort and $. College players play much much harder as they are playing for something. They have everything to lose and the coach can treat them as they wish.

NFL players are playing for $. Once they get it, they can shut it down. Coaches (rarely) can treat the players like shit and get away with it. It will get around an players will not wanna come play for them, current players will not want to continue playing there, and players can flat out just show up and cash that check.

If you don't think there's a huge difference between how you coach 18-22 year olds with nothing vs coaching 22-35 year olds with millions already in the bank or working on it, then I don't know what to tell ya.

Okay, so a hard ass coach can get away with it in college more. Reference Nick Saban or Greg Schiano. But I don't get the impression that Kelly is that type of guy? He seems more Pete Carroll than Nick Saban to me. Very upbeat and personable. Always looking to motivate. Seems like most people love the guy. He is just looking for like minded individuals who live and breath football 24/7. When he finds that guy...like Ryans, or Celek or Kelce, he is their best friend.

But for a guy like DJAX that is more interested in his record label than his football game, he has no time for that sort of guy. He doesn't have time for a jingle footed RB looking to create a highlight reel to impress the ladies. He knows that the greatest Jingle footer of all time (Barry Sanders) never won a thing. He wants hard nosed, dedicated football players that play a certain way.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Chip Kelly is not coaching any different than Jimmy Johnson was coaching when he had the Cowboys. The difference is that Johnson had a lot more talent than Chip has but that is not saying Chip does not have any. I remember hearing both Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith say even the stars did not cross Jimmy Johnson. He did not take shit from anyone.

Here is an article I found about how hard Johnson really was - Pearlman: "Boys Will Be Boys" excerpt - ESPN Page 2

Bottom line is this. Chip Kelly is running this team and he is making sure everyone knows it. You are either on board for what he is doing or you play for another team.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Chip is setting the stage. Nothing will be allowed in the form of negativity. His moves have been questionable to say the least. Might be heading for a losing season unless we get somebody good for the offensive line. Bradford staying healthy is not likely and Sanchez is a poor backup-starter. College type handling of Pros may not work!
We will find out by mid season. At least Chip will have everyone on the same page as far as the team goes.

 

[ctc]

Does it though? Loud mouths who talk negatively in public and/or don't buy into the regiment that Chip has planned get cut. Players who show up and bust their asses and stay quiet stay. I wouldn't say there is any question as to what Chip expects at this point. If you want out, become a malcontent.

Really? What did he say publicly that was negative?

 

[ctc]

I get that kelly want to do it his way.
Reid was the same. I recall early in his reign, when the team was crap and he was still trying to build character he cut a very good DT after we lost a game to Carolina who was goofing in the lockeroom after the game.

But let's not pretend that these moves don't come with a cost. Even Reid later acknowledged that.

 

[Rey]

Very informative thread ... I've learned that it doesn't matter who you have at LG or RG from now on, it's all the same. Luckily Chip's smarter than all those dumb teams out there spending draft picks on Guards when they can just plug in unproven rookie free agents and get the same results. Hopefully nobody else catches on and we can continue to keep this secret all to ourselves.

 

[old duke]

OK. So who would be your top choices for a replacement for Mathis & Herremans? Let's get a list of the best available in a trade or free agent still out there. Blalock? And is he any good? Who else?

 

[NDIrishGuy]

OK. So who would be your top choices for a replacement for Mathis & Herremans? Let's get a list of the best available in a trade or free agent still out there. Blalock? And is he any good? Who else?

Blalock has graded out positively the past 3 years as a pass blocker (2.1, 7.5, 1.9; 2014, 2013, 2012 respectively) and went from quite negative in 2012 (-6.3) as a run blocker to slightly negative in 2013 (-2.6) and neutral this past season (-0.2). All grades courtesy of PFF. So he appears to be roughly a league average guard. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[L.Freamon]

Well you seem to be more flamer then capable of a cogent discussion, but I will play along a little....

sorry you feel that way. I thought my first post in this thread was pretty cogent. Don't care to comment on that one, eh?

For the record, Chip has won 20 and lost 12 in two seasons with one playoff appearance and a loss. Pretty damn good record for a rookie coach without a decent QB.

But what we are seeing happen is perhaps the most dissatisfied got around with that record is Chip Kelly himself. He has reacted to this success by jettisoning nearly half the starting players. This is one of the largest makeovers you will ever see to a winning team.

9-3 and missing the playoffs is NOT impressive to me. Subsequently dumping successful performing players, including "Chip Guys" like Mathis who honored their contract makes no sense to me either. Chip took it personal and he shouldn't have. He's going to have to prove to me that you can improve a team by weakening it a a thin position because 95 years of NFL history says that is illogical. Chips been here 2. I can't buy that.

Chip i believe is a good coach. I think he is a nut as a GM.

 

[L.Freamon]

I would not say that.

You need scheme + Talent + Cuture if you do not have all three you will not win anything.

Chip doesn't seem to care about the talent portion.

 

[Deano]

sorry you feel that way. I thought my first post in this thread was pretty cogent. Don't care to comment on that one, eh?



9-3 and missing the playoffs is NOT impressive to me. Subsequently dumping successful performing players, including "Chip Guys" like Mathis who honored their contract makes no sense to me either. Chip took it personal and he shouldn't have. He's going to have to prove to me that you can improve a team by weakening it a a thin position because 95 years of NFL history says that is illogical. Chips been here 2. I can't buy that.

Chip i believe is a good coach. I think he is a nut as a GM.

Or maybe Mathis just really isn't that good. Hollis Thomas thinks he is average at best. Seems like he would know.

 

[deerpathdave]

Or maybe Mathis just really isn't that good. Hollis Thomas thinks he is average at best. Seems like he would know.

Its surprising that no one...Hollis Thomas, Todd Herremans, Jason Peters, Zach Ertz, Jason Kelce is backing up Mathis at all. Especially Herremans.

Kelly agrees with Freamon's opinion that last year wasn't good enough. That late season collapse was a killer. Kelly has been cleaning house ever since.

 

[old duke]

Chip is setting the stage. Nothing will be allowed in the form of negativity. His moves have been questionable to say the least. Might be heading for a losing season unless we get somebody good for the offensive line. Bradford staying healthy is not likely and Sanchez is a poor backup-starter. College type handling of Pros may not work!
We will find out by mid season. At least Chip will have everyone on the same page as far as the team goes.

Sanchez is a poor backup QB? Really? Better check it out my friend. He is actually a petty good backup. That's it - he is a backup. We didn't miss the playoffs last year because of Sanchez. it was the secondary. We had overcome a poor start against the 2nd Dallas game, but the DBs couldn't stop Dez Bryant.

 

[Birds4life81]

Like it or not, is anyone really surprised? It's obvious Chip has a very specific type of character he wants out of his players. He's building his team to his exact dimensions. Culture is huge in his eyes, and I'll give him credit for building a high level culture here. I do like some of the younger lineman more than some, but Mathis was a big time Guard and a great scheme fit -- it definitely hurts. Only time will tell if culture beats talent.