Does this change your opinion of Kawhi?

[Used 2 B Hu]

I dunno, I think his hair is still fab, don't care what the hay-tores are sayin

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yes

I had Kawhi pegged as maybe the best player in the league. Definitely top 3 with Lebron and Giannis.

With all the hype that's been surrounding him and the Clippers, with all the talk of 'perhaps the best playoff player ever', he's been a massive disappointment. Not saying he's a bad player - far from it, but a disappointment.

Let's make something very clear. A superstar doesn't go 1-11 in the 2nd half in an elimination game. A superstar doesn't sit out every back-to-back during the regular season and then some, have 4 months off because of the pandemic, and then complain he's too tired. A superstar doesn't give up three consecutive double digit leads in closeout games.

Again, don't get me wrong, Kawhi is still a superstar and will probably end up a top 20 player of all time. But he's definitely not the player a lot of people had him pegged to be.

Kobe shot worse than Kawhi and went 6-24 in Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals but they won...so nobody cared. So yeah superstars do have bad games, it happens. I think the greater point here is, their team was much more talented and they had chances to close this team out with great leads in Game 5, 6 and 7 and Kawhi didn't shoot one FT in this game. Epic choke.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I haven't turned on any of the circus media for like First Take or whatever that show Skip Bayless is on, but I wanted to get a gauge around here.

Has your view of Kawhi Leonard as a premier talent in this league been altered due to this loss? I mean realistically blowing a 3-1 lead is not new obviously, but does his overall performance in this series and in game 7 in particular alter his standing in the league?

I mean universally he's considered a top 5 player. His credentials to date are impeccable. This is probably on paper is one of, if not the most talented team he's ever had.

Thoughts?

Not really. Don't think he will ever be a top 10 all time guy he will be a fringe top 20-30 unless he goes on a major run. I don't like all the rest time he takes. Cheapens his successes in my mind. And his Toronto title is pretty lame by historical standards.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Covid-13/Pandemic P was just as responsible.

Until game 7 George had actually had a pretty good series for a number two. We probably hold him to previously being the top dog with Indiana type expectations. But yes in general he seems to underperform in the playoffs.

 

[msgkings322]

What I think we saw is that Kawhi is not a guy who's going to create chemistry.

Cowherd made a good point about that this morning. In San Antonio, there was already chemistry. In Toronto, there was already chemistry.

With the Clippers, chemistry had to be created and he couldn't do that.

It's part of what makes Lebron such a great player...not only has he played great for the Lakers, he's been a driving force in the chemistry they have.

I've said all along if LeBron wins a title with the Lakers he's co-GOAT in my book

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Kobe shot worse than Kawhi and went 6-24 in Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals but they won...so nobody cared. So yeah superstars do have bad games, it happens. I think the greater point here is, their team was much more talented and they had chances to close this team out with great leads in Game 5, 6 and 7 and Kawhi didn't shoot one FT in this game. Epic choke.

Kobe may have had a bad shooting game 7 of the 2010 Finals, but that wasn't a choke job. He still finished with 23 points and the team won. And on top of that, the Lakers didn't give up a 3-1 lead. In fact, they were down 3-2.

Kawhi had a minimal lead of 2 points going in to the 2nd half of the game and finished with 1-11 with a grand total of TWO points.

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[trojanfan12]

Kobe may have had a bad shooting game 7 of the 2010 Finals, but that wasn't a choke job. He still finished with 23 points and the team won. And on top of that, the Lakers didn't give up a 3-1 lead. In fact, they were down 3-2.

He also had 14 rebounds and a couple of key assists, including on the dagger 3 by Metta.

So he still found ways to help win the game.

And yeah, he didn't choke away 3 closeout games in which his team had leads of 16, 19 and 12 points.

 

[Wamu]

lol, yeah ANY words outta guys like Cowturd or Skip Brainless' mouth should be ignored immediately...

You know what would be unwatchable? A show with Cowturd, Skippy & Screamin' A. It could be called the Hollerin' Hour.

 

[Wamu]

View attachment 253374

View attachment 253375

Damn.

 

[Wamu]

Yes

I had Kawhi pegged as maybe the best player in the league. Definitely top 3 with Lebron and Giannis.

With all the hype that's been surrounding him and the Clippers, with all the talk of 'perhaps the best playoff player ever', he's been a massive disappointment. Not saying he's a bad player - far from it, but a disappointment.

Let's make something very clear. A superstar doesn't go 1-11 in the 2nd half in an elimination game. A superstar doesn't sit out every back-to-back during the regular season and then some, have 4 months off because of the pandemic, and then complain he's too tired. A superstar doesn't give up three consecutive double digit leads in closeout games.

Again, don't get me wrong, Kawhi is still a superstar and will probably end up a top 20 player of all time. But he's definitely not the player a lot of people had him pegged to be.

To be fair Kawhi didn't give up three consecutive double digit leads in closeouts. You gotta put that on the entire team. And the Nuggets did a helluva job defensively at the right time. They deserve credit for shutting the Clippers (and Kawhi) down when it mattered most.

And where the fuck was Playoff P? Talk about a complete fraud. He needs to change his self procalimed nickname. I never wanna hear again about how great he supposedly is.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

To be fair Kawhi didn't give up three consecutive double digit leads in closeouts. You gotta put that on the entire team. And the Nuggets did a helluva job defensively at the right time. They deserve credit for shutting the Clippers (and Kawhi) down when it mattered most.

And where the fuck was Playoff P? Talk about a complete fraud. He needs to change his self proclaimed nickname. I never wanna hear again about how great he supposedly is.

You're right, the blame should go on the entire team, not just Kawhi.

But for the amount of hype that surrounded him, he should have done better than 1-11 in the 2nd half of a win-or-go-home game.

Plus there was no emotion. There was no necessity. If you go in to the 4th quarter of a game 7 with an eight point deficit, you do whatever it takes. You get hyped, you get pissed. The whole team was just not giving a fuck.

For a team that was meant to be surefire champions, the Clippers choked more than any team I can remember.

 

[tlance]

I haven't turned on any of the circus media for like First Take or whatever that show Skip Bayless is on, but I wanted to get a gauge around here.

Has your view of Kawhi Leonard as a premier talent in this league been altered due to this loss? I mean realistically blowing a 3-1 lead is not new obviously, but does his overall performance in this series and in game 7 in particular alter his standing in the league?

I mean universally he's considered a top 5 player. His credentials to date are impeccable. This is probably on paper is one of, if not the most talented team he's ever had.

Thoughts?

Mine has changed a bit.

Not because of anything Kawhi has done, or failed to do.

But because of how successful the Spurs program has always been, and how successful the Raptors were this season without him.

No chance they win the title last year without Kawhi, but we all probably overstated his real impact when calling him the best player in the NBA.

He is elite, no doubt. He deserves to be mentioned among the top dogs. But he is probably more in that 5-7 range than the 1-3 range where most of us put him.

 

[tlance]

Denver deserves a little credit for their defense.

I was really surprised how well Denver guarded in the 2nd half yesterday. They had multiple effort plays in nearly every defensive possession.

 

[tlance]

I think Kawhi is a top 3 talent that translates into a top 10 player. When he wants to be unstoppable, he is. But for whatever reason he coasts and never gets called out for it. He is able to take over a game, or disappear and you never know which version you will get.

I don’t think he coasts.

He just isn’t a leader. If he had Jimmy Butler’s personality he might be the GOAT. But he is quiet and reserved.

So like @trojanfan12 said, he isn’t able to change culture or put a team on his back.

 

[Wamu]

You're right, the blame should go on the entire team, not just Kawhi.

But for the amount of hype that surrounded him, he should have done better than 1-11 in the 2nd half of a win-or-go-home game.

Plus there was no emotion. There was no necessity. If you go in to the 4th quarter of a game 7 with an eight point deficit, you do whatever it takes. You get hyped, you get pissed. The whole team was just not giving a fuck.

For a team that was meant to be surefire champions, the Clippers choked more than any team I can remember.

I agree he should have been better in the 2nd half. If it was any other player I'd question the emotions. Kawhi's been pretty emotionless his entire career. The only time I've really seen anything out him was that clutch shot he hit last year against the Bucks in the ECF.

There's no way I can say the Clippers choked more any other team. For me that goes to the 2015-16 G.S. Warriors. # 1 seed. Best regular season record in history. With the back to back League MVP.

 

[Wamu]

I was really surprised how well Denver guarded in the 2nd half yesterday. They had multiple effort plays in nearly every defensive possession.

I know the Nuggets are glad to have Gary Harris back. Hit and miss with him on the offensive end sometimes. But he's a solid defender.

 

[bksballer89]

Nah. He's human. Im looking at PG playing like a pussy in another elimination game once again

 

[thunderc]

All I know is the Thunder got more draft picks for him than playoff P had field goals last night.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

I think Denver as a team rising to the occasion and coming back from a 3-1 hole to bring it to a game 7 was way more responsible for the Clippers exit. Murray and Jokic clutched up. Period.
Paul Millsap was also huge...especially in game 5 which is where the series turned in their favor.
They became more confident in games 6 & 7. Their overall defense and team rebounding was also key.