Do we have a CBA strife thread yet?

[wings-pens2166]

Hooray! Glad I had friends over and got drunk last night instead of watching tweets and message boards till 5am!



That's how I feel too - I really think the NHL is at blame here for asking for way too much and then exaggerating their needs throughout the process. Then again, Fehr might have been planning on waiting until the last moment to make a deal anyway. We'll never know.

actually, if you've ever followed fehr's exploits as head of the MLBPA, then you do know the answer....fehr had no intention of dealing with the nhl in any meaningful way until he had to and he is just as responsible as bettman.

 

[thedddd]

actually, if you've ever followed fehr's exploits as head of the MLBPA, then you do know the answer....fehr had no intention of dealing with the nhl in any meaningful way until he had to and he is just as responsible as bettman.

So true when he became head of the NHLPA you knew it wouldn't be good.

Lets just hope nothing happens for 10 years and just think Kovalchuk will still have a couple years left on his contract.

 

[dash]

Oh I agree that Fehr and the PA played a huge role in delaying this process as long as possible, but as commissioner, the additional responsibility for the stewardship of the league lies with Bettman and with 3 lockouts in 18 years, he has shirked his duties.

 

[Dacks]

actually, if you've ever followed fehr's exploits as head of the MLBPA, then you do know the answer....fehr had no intention of dealing with the nhl in any meaningful way until he had to and he is just as responsible as bettman.

I don't know. Depends on situation. Sounds like Fehr had a lot of support to do things "his way" because players were really offended by initial NHL offer. And everytime the NHL walked away from an NHLPA offer without looking at it, everytime they threw a hissy fit, it galvanized the players even more. Without such strong player support, Fehr can't push this thing as long as he did.

If the NHL had offered something closer to what eventually was agreed upon, I'm sure there would have been more pressure to sign. But they didn't. Fehr then told the union their best deal would come at the last minute, and he was right.

 

[wings-pens2166]

I don't know. Depends on situation. Sounds like Fehr had a lot of support to do things "his way" because players were really offended by initial NHL offer. And everytime the NHL walked away from an NHLPA offer without looking at it, everytime they threw a hissy fit, it galvanized the players even more. Without such strong player support, Fehr can't push this thing as long as he did.

If the NHL had offered something closer to what eventually was agreed upon, I'm sure there would have been more pressure to sign. But they didn't. Fehr then told the union their best deal would come at the last minute, and he was right.

I'm probably wrong to say fehr is just as responsible as bettman. more like 60-40 bettman. as dash just mentioned bettman is supposed to be a caretaker of the league where as fehr is only responsible for getting the best deal possible for his constituents. and bettman has failed the league, so he bears a bit more of the blame....

however, fehr is a slimy POS...granted a slimy POS thats very good at getting his constituents the best deal possible, but a slimy POs nonetheless. if the nhl's first offer would have been closer to what's being agreed upon, I have no doubts fehr would still have waited until the last minute to get an even sweeter deal based on the way he's always operated.

 

[Jimmy_the_Tongue]

It's over!...almost...game on!?

 

[Jimmy_the_Tongue]

My daughter woke me up with this news.. Bless her heart. She's an angel.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

Does this mean we can LOCK OUT this thread?????













I'm sorry, I'll go crawl back into my hole now.

 

[davnlaguna]

I'm probably wrong to say fehr is just as responsible as bettman. more like 60-40 bettman. as dash just mentioned bettman is supposed to be a caretaker of the league where as fehr is only responsible for getting the best deal possible for his constituents. and bettman has failed the league, so he bears a bit more of the blame....

however, fehr is a slimy POS...granted a slimy POS thats very good at getting his constituents the best deal possible, but a slimy POs nonetheless. if the nhl's first offer would have been closer to what's being agreed upon, I have no doubts fehr would still have waited until the last minute to get an even sweeter deal based on the way he's always operated.

I am more 60 Fehr's fault. Not for the lockout but for the length. He felt the best deal would be at the deadline and did everything he could to delay the talks until then. I think Bettman really tried to push for an 82 game season and was truely upset that he couldn't get it done. He underestimated Fehr's ability to take that first offer, which everyone knew was to show the goal was a 50/50 split, and combine it with the player's hate of Bettman to solidify the players.

Not that Bettman is without fault just i think when the players hired Fehr a long lockout was assured.

 

[TiLoBrown]

Really, Fehr? I guess he was the one that said no to 3 proposal after 10 minutes...oh wait...........

 

[puckhead]

actually, if you've ever followed fehr's exploits as head of the MLBPA, then you do know the answer....fehr had no intention of dealing with the nhl in any meaningful way until he had to and he is just as responsible as bettman.

If foggy memory serves, the PA was pretty damned quick to get to 50/50, where everyone and his dog knew the answer was.
Owners kept walking out and imposing restrictions on resuming talks.

Anywho, phew!

 

[davnlaguna]

Really, Fehr? I guess he was the one that said no to 3 proposal after 10 minutes...oh wait...........

Those 3 proposals were not worth the napkins they were written on. They were given after 30 days of stalling and Fehr had not run the numbers. They were a PR stunt to fool the simple minded. The league should have taken them overnight before blowing their collective nose in it. From the begining Fehr meant to stall. Did it work? We will find out in 8-10 years

 

[Dacks]

The risk with holding out is that any gains you might have on the CBA isn't worth the loss in revenue from more missed games. But I think if you look at how the NHL offers improved with time, it was always worth it to wait.

From October to December, the players gained up to 300 million in makewhole.
From December to now, they gained extra years on contract length, and a much higher cap for next year.

Just by guestimating, it would seem that in both cases, holding out was the better move for the union, financially. (It would be interesting to see a real analysis though.) From that perspective, holding out was always the right move, and Fehr did a brilliant job.

If the NHL had offered this deal from the start, then maybe Fehr and the union reconsiders holding out? I mean, if this deal is offered in November, would Fehr have the support to hold out? I'm not sure. If they did, they'd look like idiots. As it stands, it looks like they played it perfectly. (Notwithstanding fan backlash of course.)

 

[Jimmy_the_Tongue]

I want credit for breaking this news on SportsHoopla! Check out post 4446! That's me, baby!

p.s. fuck the Flyers...::::..Game On!!!!!!

 

[TiLoBrown]

Those 3 proposals were not worth the napkins they were written on. They were given after 30 days of stalling and Fehr had not run the numbers. They were a PR stunt to fool the simple minded. The league should have taken them overnight before blowing their collective nose in it. From the begining Fehr meant to stall. Did it work? We will find out in 8-10 years

PR stunt my ass. From Day 1 the owners were trying to get the PA to distrust Fehr. They were the ones that said "fuck this" and walked away. They were the ones with the "its our way or no way" stance. If theres a 60/40 split, its 60 Bettman

 

[puckhead]

PR stunt my ass. From Day 1 the owners were trying to get the PA to distrust Fehr. They were the ones that said "fuck this" and walked away. They were the ones with the "its our way or no way" stance. If theres a 60/40 split, its 60 Bettman

Don't forget 'the hill we die on'.

 

[flyersfan4706]

I must say, fuck this thread.

EDIT: I actually have a question for anybody. Can teams now sign and trade players? I assume yes, but am not sure.

 

[Dacks]

Don't forget 'the hill we die on'.

Yeah, it must have been pretty encouraging to the players to hold out, knowing that every time the league gave an ultimatum, they were willing to cave a few weeks later.

 

[davnlaguna]

PR stunt my ass. From Day 1 the owners were trying to get the PA to distrust Fehr. They were the ones that said "fuck this" and walked away. They were the ones with the "its our way or no way" stance. If theres a 60/40 split, its 60 Bettman

Not saying Bettman is blameless just i think he, for reasons other then his love of the fans, wanted a full season. Fehr knew that the pressure would be on Bettman to not cancel another season and used it as a vice to get all he could. When the PA fired Kelly and hired Fehr a long lockout was going to happen. Bettman and the owners started the lockout. Fehr made it last until January.

 

[wings-pens2166]

It doesn't matter one bit what the owners orignial offer was. it could have been what the PA's orginal offer was and it wouldn't have mattered. fehr was holding out til the dropdead date no matter what to get an even better deal. he knew damn well that if another season was lost the lion's share of the blame was going to fall on the nhl. he had the leverage there.

you might say getting the best deal possible was fehr's job and you'd be right. but then by contrast you have to say bettman's job was to get the best deal for the owners. however, bettman does have the added responsibility of being a caretaker of the game, which has failed at (at least IMO).

so why while bettman may bear a larger share of the blame, make no mistake, fehr (and by extension the players who hired him) bear a very large share as well.

of course, I guess none of that truly matters now that they've finally come to agreement...at not for another 8-10 years from now anyway